neck turning

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by mw185, Oct 31, 2007.

  1. mw185

    mw185 Member

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    at what stage in the reloading process is neck turning done. Any hints and tips for the forster outside neck turner ? Does the turner also cut the case to length, or is this a seperate step?
     
  2. overbore

    overbore Well-Known Member

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    Procedures

    Son,

    In my experience, neck turning is best done before the first round is loaded. If using the Forster ( I still use mine from 1970), plan on two passes to skim cut the neck. Lube the pilot to avoid heat build up and check for total roundness which is the purpose of neck turning in a factory chamber.

    After you have fired and resized, the cartridge may show some length growth which is why and when you trim the length of the brass. After so doing, lightly chamfer the inside of the case mouth to seat flat base bullets easier. BT's may not require--.

    What Reloading manuals do you have? I will be glad to assist. if necessary.
    Cordially and best wishes, Overbore
     

  3. mw185

    mw185 Member

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    thankyou for the reply. I have three boxes of cases [remington] fired from my rifle [270 win] I would like to start reloading for. Neck sizing only was recommended [lee collet], but I have no experience with neck turning and would like to learn and add to my reloading.
     
  4. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    mw185,

    Neck turning and case trimming are two separate steps. Foster has two different ways to neck turn. I have both but so far I have only used the hand held one. Works very good.

    Here is also some good reading:

    Varmint Al's Handloading/Reloading Page
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2007
  5. CatShooter

    CatShooter Well-Known Member

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    You can set the Forster trimmer/neck turner to do both at the same time, but for 60 cases it's not worth the trouble to set it up. Do one step, then the other.

    Why are you going to turn the necks - do you have a tight neck chamber?

    Some years back, it was believed that turning was mandated for accuracy, but that belief has wained, and the current trend is towards "no turn necks", and away from neck turning except in competition rifles used at very long range, with custom chambers.

    If you have a factory grade rifle, with a standard factory chamber, you will NOT see a difference.

    Also... neck turning with some calibers can cause more problems than it is supposed to solve.

    If you are turning a case, and using bullets whose base is seated below the shoulder/neck junction, you will run into the "dreaded donut" problem, which is a pain in the ass to remove.

    The donut is a remaining brass ring that is left after neck turning. When you turn the neck, you lessen the outside diameter of ~90% of the neck - you can not do it all, cuz you can't cut past the shoulder junction.

    When you size the neck, the remaining 10% now gets pushed into the neck, and forms a ring just under the shoulder/neck junction.

    This ring of brass causes problems bullet seating, the severity of which will depend on the chamber dimensions.

    It is a pain in the ass to remove, cus you need inside reamers that are the exact size of the inside of the sized neck... and it's a bitch to solve that problem, unless you have the full set of tools for it...
    ... K&M makes the full set of sizers, expanders, mandrels, reamers... for about $100 +/-.

    If the seated bullets don't extend to the base of the case, you can leave the donut there.

    I'm not opposed to neck turning... I have three Forster neck turning lathes, and my last "turning" project was 1,100 Lapua cases for a 0.262" tight neck 6mmBR. It really sucked, and took all winter!

    But I will tell you that I will never order a tight neck chamber again, and I do NOT turn cases for match grade chambers if I can get decent brass for the caliber.

    If I can't get match grade brass like Lapua, I would rather by extra Winchester, measure the necks, and use the odd ones for early load development, and then toss them in the trash. In the end, it is cheaper and faster.

    If you do turn necks, the cases should be once fired, or at least FL sized and then run over an expander mandrel, like the ones sold by K&M or Sinclair... if you turn new brass, out of the box, you will wind up turning off the lumps and bumps, and have uneven brass once it is fired.

    Neck turning can be a Pandora's box, and unloose a nightmare of problems - and it is not the panacea of accuracy that many claim.



    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2007
  6. overbore

    overbore Well-Known Member

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    CAtShooter

    has it about right but has neglected to include total run out measurement in hi amplified and good response. If you get away from neck turning and accep the fact that there are "bananna shaped cases" out there, the quick mens to hunting accuracy is to measure the total runout of your loaded rounds and separate then into groups. Mark all of them on the head with an indelible marker and load all in the same position in your chamber every shot.. For example, load all the "marks" at 6 or 12 o'clock.

    Use four broad runout groups.
    I am primarily a benchrest shooter of the 300wsm and well familiar with and highly suggest the K&M Services, 717-292-3175, carbide fluted cuter to both turn and eliminate the dreaded donut simultaneously. I also use their expander so that we are using an apples to apples comparison starting with a round neck on the inside.

    When you run a cartridge case through a sizing die, the brass has only one way to go which is toward the neck ( length ) which is why we must trim after checking with a good case length gage. If the neck is baove th egage length, trim it.

    When you are ready to move up, I use Redding dies with a bushing for seating. Check out their web and have a look at Accurate Reloading and Benchrest Central. Best wishes, Overbore
     
  7. CatShooter

    CatShooter Well-Known Member

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    What does that mean... I'm kinda long in the tooth, but I never heard of that "hi amplified" stuff.

    I never found any of those kinda cases either?

    I must not be livin' right.

    I miss all the good stuff! ;)


    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2007
  8. 1kstr

    1kstr Well-Known Member

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    MW:
    I have to ask if you mean neck sizing and not neck turning? I take it as you want to neck size, which makes sense. I wouldn't neck turn a factory chambered rifle normally. Then you need a neck sizing die. Just trying to clarify.
    1kstr
     
  9. overbore

    overbore Well-Known Member

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    Link here

    http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jessee99/doughnuts.html to get more info than you need to know about Doughnuts, other than Krispy Kreme. I happen to use a battery powered screw driver to power the K&M cutter and for National Match shooting ( piles of rounds) use a drill press powered case trimmer. For BR it is hand only. The late Chet Brown, Brown Precision founder, friend and HUnter and br shooter, developed the run-out data and the first tool to measure it in the 1960's. I have a ten thousands dial on mine---.
    CatShooter, I am 71 and slipped a finger; I meant to type "in HIs" response. See what hepenz when the kaupphy level is low?
    Overbore
     
  10. AJ Peacock

    AJ Peacock Well-Known Member

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    re: the banana shaped cartridges.

    My guess is he's talking about those cases that have thicker walls on one side than the other and thus spring back un-evenly. I usually just use them for foulers or toss them in the round file.

    AJ
     
  11. CatShooter

    CatShooter Well-Known Member

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    I take all of my Banana shaped cases, split them down the middle...




    ... and put ice cream, whipped cream, and mouse sprinkles on them ;) ;)


    I was tuggin his chain ;) ;)

    .
     
  12. CatShooter

    CatShooter Well-Known Member

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  13. mw185

    mw185 Member

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    Thanks again for the responses. My interest in neck turning came from wanting to remove another potential variable in my reloadin with the obvious goal of improving accuracy. It appears it may not be worth the time or effort.I guess that leaves more time for scouting and shooting. Probably a better investment for my "medium"-long range hunting goals.
     
  14. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    mw185,
    There is a bunch of people that think Ford is better than Dodge, on the other hand another bunch feel that dodge is better than Ford. I all depends who you talk to.
    It's almost the same with neck turning, there is a bunch of knowledgeable people telling you not to waste your time on the other hand there is a bunch telling you you should do it. I have been reloading over 30 years and have read a bunch about different opinions. What I did was I tried it and decide for my self. I found that in factory rifles you don't get as much benefit but... but you still do. There definatelly is more consitance that a good chronograph will show and your groups will show. It my boost your confidence.
    Read some more on it and maybe try it. I think is worth my efforts if I do it right!