Muzzle Brakes and Scopes???

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by Md 25v, Sep 23, 2009.

  1. Md 25v

    Md 25v Member

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    Ok, so I just sent a new build to Eabco to have the JP Howitzer brake installed. This is the one I'm talking about.
    JP Howitzer Brake Blue Installed
    I am fully aware of the problems associated with scopes on Braked rifles and why they happen. With that said, do any of you guys have direct experience with scopes that have been long lived on braked rifles. I have three scopes that are up for grabs for this build, a Leupold 2-7 VXII, a 4-14 VXIII, and a Mueller Eraticator 8-25. I would really like to put the Mueller on this one but I'm not sure how she would hold up to the brake. The gun is a .308 so it doesn't have much kick to begin with but the reverse recoil associated with the brake is what I'm worried about. I have seen braked rifles on quite a few of the threads here and I was wondering what kind of scopes you guys have had good luck with.
     
  2. zuba

    zuba Well-Known Member

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    I dont think you have anything to worry about! Just about every gun I have is braked and I've never had a scope go bad, mine have leupolds...
     

  3. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Its not the recoil that is harmful to scopes, its the deceleration forces or negative G forces caused by the muzzle brake.

    A muzzle brakes effectiveness is determined by a few things:
    1. Muzzle gas pressure
    2. Muzzle gas Volume
    3. Surface area in the brake that muzzle gas pushes against

    In your case, the 308 has very little muzzle pressure or gas volume so it will not make any brake work extremely well at reducing felt recoil. The brake you are using is about as aggressive as you can get so that will help you but still, the effects will not be dramatic as it would be with say a 300 RUM with the same brake.

    As to the scopes, what makes a scope suitable for a muzzle braked rifle is if it has lense supports on both sides of its lenses for recoil energy support and also for deceleration forces support. Other things also come into play, such as scope height over the bore(the higher the scope the more its stressed) and the weight of the scope(the heavier the scope, the more its stressed).

    Personally, I would say that your chambering will not harm any of these scopes. If you were using a 300 RUM, I would say only use the VXIII but with the 308 you should not have any trouble with any of them.
     
  4. Md 25v

    Md 25v Member

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    Have to disagree with you there. The reason I chose this brake is because my shooting partner has one on his .308 and it reduces the recoil to that of a .22mag . The gun stays still when fired, no real recoil to deal with.

    For what its worth, I'm nor interested in recoil reduction. Its the fact that you can see your own bullet strikes that I like. I have been practicing a lot with shooting offhand. My main targets are 4 inch clays at 200 yards. I don't hit them every time offhand but I'm getting better. Spotting my strikes was a big help when I used his gun since it had virtually no recoil.
     
  5. BigDaddy0381

    BigDaddy0381 Well-Known Member

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    I have a JP on a 300win mag and have put maybe 300 thur it with no scope problems at all. the scope is a nikon 5.5x16.5x44 UCC with the BDC.
     
  6. Md 25v

    Md 25v Member

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    Thanks, thats just what I wanted to hear. How do you like the JP on your Win-Mag?
     
  7. zuba

    zuba Well-Known Member

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    My old man just took his JP off and had a muscle brake from centershot rifles put on, the new brake has A LOT less muzzle rize and a lot less rearward recoil. There are better/more efficient brakes...
     
  8. Md 25v

    Md 25v Member

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    What kind caliber is his gun?

    I really had no interest in putting a brake on any of my guns, even my 300 Win-Mag, partly because I don't shoot it often because that much powder per shot burns up my wallet. I'm new to Brakes in general and the main reason I picked that one was because its what my buddy has on his rifle. My .308 is not a long range gun. I shoot it at a 500 yard range twice a week but that's the farthest I shoot it. My 300 Win-Mag bolt gun and 243wssm AR-15 are my two long range guns that I use for hunting. Since I don't shoot them repeatedly while hunting I'm not to worried about recoil. I use the .308 to practice with and I have all my load data stored in Exbal for all 3 cals. So when I'm hunting I just switch loads in the calculator. I don't shoot the Win-Mag off hand, mainly because its to heavy (16 lbs) and the kick is great for bruising my shoulder. So spotting my hits offhand with the .308 at 200 yards is the main reason for the Brake.
     
  9. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    I am not and did not say there would not be any recoil reduction. My point was that the more muzzle gas pressure and volume you have, the more drastic the felt recoil reduction will be.

    I would agree, that the 308 will be tamed to very low recoil levels but a 300 RUM in the same weight rifle, same bullet and same brake would have nearly identical felt recoil as the braked 308 after brake installation on the RUM. The reason, the much larger volume of muzzle gas and higher muzzle pressure.

    So back to my point, the effectiveness of the brake on a 308 will be much less then that with a 300 RUM. End result may be similiar but recoil reduction from a non braked rifle will be dramatically different.

    Also, the entire reason I brought up this point was to state that the 308 will not produce enough negative G-forces to hurt any scope which was the answer to your question, just explaining why and giving an example as to what may be much harder on scopes.

    I am surpised you picked the JP if your main concern is muzzle jump as its not one designed for this type of performance. Its designed for extreme recoil reduction, not muzzle jump control. You would have been better off with a Holland QD or PK brake that are designed specifically to control muzzle jump as well as recoil reduction.

    The reason the JP will still likely work on the 308 is because of its very limited muzzle jump to start with.

    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2009
  10. zuba

    zuba Well-Known Member

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    338x300wsm, I have a Holland QD on my 7wsm pistol, My buddy just had the muscle brake put on his 300wsm pistol. I should have a video to add in a week or so, whenever he gets home from basic training...
     
  11. Md 25v

    Md 25v Member

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    OK, I understand what you meant now. Sorry.
    The Muzzle jump on a .308 is light enough that the JP almost completely eliminates it on the other .308 I shot (10FP 20 in bbl). I'm sure you would notince more muzzle jump reduction in bigger cals with a brake thats designed for that but with the low muzzle jump on the .308 I don't think theres much more jump to get rid of. Like I said, when I shot the JP braked gun for the first time it almost stood still even offhand and I could spot my shots.
     
  12. BigDaddy0381

    BigDaddy0381 Well-Known Member

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    I love it. It is very loud behind me so other shooter know when it is fired. My 10 year old son has shot it 40 times prone out to 400 yards and not have a brusied shoulder.
     
  13. NJS

    NJS Well-Known Member

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    Vias muzzle brakes are fantastic... but all muzzlebrakes to play havoc with all scopes and mounts.

    Best to increase the screw size and epoxy the base to the rifle if a break is to be used. MHO... NJS