Muzzle Brake Issue on 338 Edge

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by Cordell, Dec 30, 2010.

  1. Cordell

    Cordell Well-Known Member

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    I want to run this by you all and get your feed back on this issue.


    I have a 338 Edge that was built by my local gun smith. The gun with scope (no ammo) weighs around 13lbs maybe a bit more. I have a 4 port Muzzle Brake on it. I do not want to name the maker of the port until I have tried a few things.


    My brother also has a 338 Edge (15lbs) with the same muzzle brake. His 338 kicks like a 243, mine kicks like a 300 RUM shooting 200 gr bullets (un braked) it kicks!! I have a brake on my 300 RUM factory Rem 700 and I shoot 210 Gr bullets at 2944 and is FUN to shoot, the 338 IS NOT fun to shoot!!!! The brake on my 300 RUM comes from the same company and is a 3 port, both brakes have a top dead center and need to be oriented correctly, both are.


    I spoke with the individual who sold my brother his rifle about this issue. I learned he had the same problem with the brake and had his gun smith modify and open the brake up more.


    My plan is to place my brothers brake on my gun, shoot it and see if there is a difference between the two. If there is I will take both to my Smith and have him make mine a twin of my brothers.


    I hope someone has some information to pass on about this issue. I am kind of disappointed in the brake I think it should work better than it does. If you need information on the brake I can PM you the makers name. I am not wanting to give the maker a bad rep over my limited experience to this point. I did call and speak with the maker but they were not really able to provide any information about why this is happening.


    I am hopping my the issue can be fixed by making my brake identical to my brothers. I just wanted to see if anyone else has had a similar experience and what they did to resolve the issue.


    If I have left out a needed piece of information about the guns make up please let me know and I will up date my post.
     
  2. JUDD

    JUDD Well-Known Member

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    measure the hole diameter in the brake....

    I doubt if you brothers brake will index propely taking it from one gun to the other.
     

  3. Cordell

    Cordell Well-Known Member

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    Judd,


    the hole the bullet passes through is bigger on my brothers brake, the manufacture says that should not cause that much difference. I have wondered if it would contribute but I do not have much experiance with brakes to say one way or the other.

    I thought about his brake not indexing correctly with my rifle and will use some tin foil to make up the difference to get it timed right. That should work for 1 shot, unless I am not thinking of something that would cause an issue by doing this.
     
  4. JUDD

    JUDD Well-Known Member

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    It won't be that noticable of a differance unless it is extrem...ie 50 cal on .338. If I'm not mistaken .030 is the norm.

    I'm not really looking for a name but is this a well known name manufactured brake?
     
  5. Cordell

    Cordell Well-Known Member

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    Judd,


    The maker is well known to LRH members, and they have helped me with my rifle build and other questions so I am not ready to burn bridges without doing my part to resolve the issue.

    If making my brake a twin of my brothers works I will post what was done to get the information out to people so they know. Looking back now and knowing what I know now it is very possible I would have gone with another brake. I will have to see what shakes out with this brake over the next 2 months or how ever long it takes to get my brothers brake from him and then shoot them. Just may find the time in the next 7 days since I have them off.

    When I asked the company if they wanted me to keep them informed of what I learned they said they would like to know what I find out.

    With my gun being a couple pounds lighter than my brothers i do not expect it to kick like a 243 but it should not leave a bruise on my shoulder after one shot.

    It is very possible something my Smith did is causing the issue. This was the first brake of this type he has done. The ones he uses have holes all the way around and do not work well for dirt shooters like myself. When he is done wit his brakes you can not even tell where the brake and barrel meet.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2010
  6. Coyboy

    Coyboy Well-Known Member

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    If thru hole is sized properly, and the only way your brothers brake worked was by "modifying" I asume the port volume was increased during the modification.


    Quoteed;;;"I spoke with the individual who sold my brother his rifle about this issue. I learned he had the same problem with the brake and had his gun smith modify and open the brake up more."

    Then I would say it is a design problem with the brake in that it is not sheding the gas volume fast enough. This modification worked on your brothers gun, so sounds like that is what will be needed on your gun.

    One size muzzle brakes don't work on every cartrige, bore dia, gas volume, bullet wieght all factor into effiecency. If the design of the brake suffers so could your shoulder and or accuracy.
     
  7. Cordell

    Cordell Well-Known Member

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    Coyboy,


    I am thinking you are right.

    I found your web-sight earlier today and wish I would have known about it when I was building my gun. But now I know for my next build.
     
  8. trueblue

    trueblue Well-Known Member

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    Cordell,
    I am the one that sold Robert his rifle as you know. I had the inside of the brake opened up to the first port to let the gasses escape better. Initially, they were forming a carbon ring at the barrel/ brake junction, which told me there was back pressure being cuased. After having a local smith take a drill bit chucked in his lathe and opened up the inside of the brake to make the first chamber bigger to the first port opening,the problem was solved and as you know recoil is mild on that rifle.Since that time, I have seen these brakes installed so the crown is located flush with the first port opening, and that works great as well.
    Where is the crown located in relation to the first port of the brake ?
     
  9. Cordell

    Cordell Well-Known Member

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    Trueblue,

    That is a good question, I would have to look closer and take some measurments and see what I can learn.

    I will see if I can take a picture of the brake that is good E-nuff to post and see if it is doing the same thing the other one was before it was worked on.
     
  10. Cordell

    Cordell Well-Known Member

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    Ok After some thinking about what Trueblue said in this post and last time I spoke with him on the phone about this issue I think I am finally understanding what you meant.

    Correct me if I am wrong, when you say open up the first port you are talking about where the end of the muzzle meets the brake. The opening up is done to the inside when installed on the barrel you can not see the port.

    I was thinking the ports on the side that are visible when ever you look at the brake. This is starting to make sense, my Smith cut the "bullet channel" smaller than what the manufacture suggested. He said the smaller the hole the better the break works. This may be very true on the brakes he uses but not so with mine.

    Trueblue you also got me thinking about the space between the muzzle and the brake when installed on the barrel. If there is a big enough gap back pressure will be the result.

    Like I said I do not have much knowledge or experience with muzzle brakes. I think I have a better understanding of the little things that can make a difference.

    True blue I took a pic of the brake where it meets the muzzle the first port you see, this is the one you are talking about opening up. Is that right?

    [​IMG]
     
  11. trueblue

    trueblue Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Just drill it bigger, but don't get into the threads. This should help, at least it did with mine. Only go to the first port opening.
     
  12. Coyboy

    Coyboy Well-Known Member

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    Yes I see also, I have used some of those brakes and I removed the first baffle which really only covers up the crown, and does nothing to reduce recoil.

    I bore out my brakes to final dimension when they are installed on the barrel, for perfect concentricity. That baffle next to the crown did not seem logical, and could only cause problems when boring, if a boring bar got to close to the crown.
     
  13. Cordell

    Cordell Well-Known Member

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    Trueblue and Coyboy



    I understand now. I just measured the hole in the last port/baffle, it is .0367 and I'd guess the first one is the same. With the first one being so close to the muzzle the back pressure is causing the kick. The gas is being forced through a small hole causing the equal and opposite reaction, the gas is being trapped in the first chamber and is not being allowed to escape fast enough. I am getting excited to get this done, then get the beast out to see if it has been tamed. I will have to look at the brake on my 300 RUM and see if it could be opened up to help reduce even more kick.

    What size do i want the hole to be in the rest of the baffles? Mine is .0367 wich is very close the the maufacures recomended size of .0368 for a .338 bullet. I know the ports on my brothers are bigger than .0368. Also do you want the holes to be smoth? Mine looks as if they have been threaded or like a dirt road turned on its side and you can see all the washboard ruts.


    Now I have another question, would this hole in the baffle being so small, slow the bullet down at all? As the bullet is traveling down the barrel it has to push the air out of its way. Will this also cause some back pressure slowing the bullet all be it a small amount say 1-15 fps or so? I wouldn’t think so, but as I stated before I don’t have much knowledge when it comes to brakes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2011
  14. Coyboy

    Coyboy Well-Known Member

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    if you look in the linked pic you can see that the threads on my brake run all the way to the first opening. So the crown will be visable on the barrel by looking thru the first opening of the brake.

    Your first baffle on your style brake could be opened up to 1/2" and that would prevent the problem your having. The reamaning thru holes should stay at the dimension they currently are.

    Take the the brake off and back to the smith have him chuck it up threads toward the tail stock and have him drill or bore out that first "blocking" baffle. any where up to thread minor dia.

    http://www.centershotrifles.com/sales/img/CSR_MuzzleBrake_100_1859.jpg