Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
I don't know what will happen. but there is no way they will ever be eliminated completely. If they are kept to what was originally agreed upon I think everyone could live with it, including the animals!
MT going to cut loose on wolves!!!
- Thread starter bigngreen
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
One of the things mentioned in the Alaska books I read is if you want to increase the wolf numbers kill half of them for 5 years. The game herds will come back and the wolf number will follow and be sustainable. If something isn't done an equilibrium will be reached but at a drastically low number for both species. One other point I would like to make is that the stockmen in Wyoming still have alot of clout in the state legislature. I don't think they will rewrite their plan. They have wolves and grizzlies in the NW but neither expands outward very far. As long as the wolves don't become a problem that can't be controlled in the rest of the state I think they will sacrifice the park area. Most of the stockmen have left there. You don't hear of too many wolves outside the NW mountains.
If we don't eliminate them, they'll pretty much eliminate themselves as they migrate out to find a new food source. There won't be anything left for them to eat in our states. I think that liberal Californians and New Yorkers taste like elk so maybe we can transplant them to the LA, San Francisco and Central Park areas. We might be able to keep a bunch along the fence between Arizona and Mexico as well, although I hear they taste more like a cross between chicken and cattle.
Sorry about that, I started thinking "political" like an Anti! Going to join PETA ( People for the Eating of Tasty Animals!)
Sorry about that, I started thinking "political" like an Anti! Going to join PETA ( People for the Eating of Tasty Animals!)
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
What has changed in my view, is our side has a chance to play offense for the first time in a long while. Let us not get excited, or lethargic, and give the ball back.
This was accomplished by making a lot of paychecks an "endangered species". Politically my view is our goal should remain overturning the endangered species act, the wild horse and burro act, etc., and stop spending money we don't have for things we don't need. No intent to expand the thread just pointing out these issues get strangely intertwined. I don't suspect any of us will ever build a snail darter rifle, but I suppose you'd start with good optics.
This was accomplished by making a lot of paychecks an "endangered species". Politically my view is our goal should remain overturning the endangered species act, the wild horse and burro act, etc., and stop spending money we don't have for things we don't need. No intent to expand the thread just pointing out these issues get strangely intertwined. I don't suspect any of us will ever build a snail darter rifle, but I suppose you'd start with good optics.
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
mustang58---I don't know where you live or where you got the information from in this sentence you just posted: "They have wolves and grizzlies in the NW but neither expands outward very far". The summer before last a pack from north of Yellowstone moved all the way towards the south end of the Big Horn Mountains where I hunt and killed over 100 sheep and calves on the ranches next to the area I have hunted since 1994. The Father of the Federal trapper assigned to the case told me that his son never could trap any and ended up shooting 3 out of the pack of an estimated 8 from an airplane and the rest got away. The alpha male that was killed had a collar that had been put on north of Gardner, MT and that's a good 4 hour highway drive at the least from where it was shot. Another female collared up there traveled 5 different states in seven months and was finally found dead in Colorado of unknown causes. Another was killed on I-90 way over near Sturgis, SD where the big motorcycle rally is held each year. The grizzlies are also out of control and way outside the Yellowstone ecosystem with a number of incidents with hunters way down in deer Regions G & H, which is many miles from where they should have been kept in check. More and more outfitters are taking dogs into their camps to warn them of bear intrusions and others are also now putting electric fences around their camps to keep the bears out. Anyway, what I'm getting at is that is exactly why Wyoming has been so adamant with keeping their plan intact where wolves would be predators and shot on sight outside the recovery zone. They can populate an area very quickly compared to the slow production rate of the grizzly. This grizzly situation is going to be worse in the next few years, especially with the pine bark trees either dying or having low cone production. That is the main food of the grizzly before it dens in order to put on weight and now they are coming to a lot of deer and elk kills as soon as they hear gunshots.
Last edited:
Mustang58,
I'm at a real loss on how you can make a comment like that. In Nunavut, which is 1250 miles above the Ontario/U.S. border, which is as large as Western Europe, there are over 10,000 Wolves and 60% of the worlds 25,000 Polar Bears, feeding on over one million caribou. There is only one human inhabitant per 25 square miles for a total of 30,000. Over half of the wolves that have been tracked in the northernmost reaches have traveled from the lower Ontario area in the past ten years. They have cut the caribou herds almost in half from their ten year prior count. Wolves from the Sawtooth Pack have now shown up in Utah, Nevada and Oregon. They had to cross severe water hazards of several major river systems to get to Oregon. Wolves from the Lolo Pack have now been found in Washington. These wolves have traveled distances of up to 900 miles. There have been wolves from the Yellowstone Eco area that have made it to Colorado. These **** things are going to keep moving to establish new packs as they get ran out of older, established ones. They will continue to migrate out as long as they aren't kept in check at a rapid pace. It has been proven scientifically. The biologists working on getting them delisted several years ago were doing hair catches and testing the DNA to see how far certain genetically linked wolves had spread out. One of the first major issues the Anti's made was that the genetics weren't diversified enough for delisting. When it was proven that they were, we hunted wolves that next year. I'm really surprised you would make a statement like you did without doing a little more research. When the real truth gets out about how much total devastation the wolves have really done, I think people will see things a whole lot different than they do today. All of the wolf and elk counts have been done with flawed computer modules they have now discovered. The carnage is far greater than the game departments were reporting. The wolf count is now believed to be almost double what they have reported, as well.
I'm at a real loss on how you can make a comment like that. In Nunavut, which is 1250 miles above the Ontario/U.S. border, which is as large as Western Europe, there are over 10,000 Wolves and 60% of the worlds 25,000 Polar Bears, feeding on over one million caribou. There is only one human inhabitant per 25 square miles for a total of 30,000. Over half of the wolves that have been tracked in the northernmost reaches have traveled from the lower Ontario area in the past ten years. They have cut the caribou herds almost in half from their ten year prior count. Wolves from the Sawtooth Pack have now shown up in Utah, Nevada and Oregon. They had to cross severe water hazards of several major river systems to get to Oregon. Wolves from the Lolo Pack have now been found in Washington. These wolves have traveled distances of up to 900 miles. There have been wolves from the Yellowstone Eco area that have made it to Colorado. These **** things are going to keep moving to establish new packs as they get ran out of older, established ones. They will continue to migrate out as long as they aren't kept in check at a rapid pace. It has been proven scientifically. The biologists working on getting them delisted several years ago were doing hair catches and testing the DNA to see how far certain genetically linked wolves had spread out. One of the first major issues the Anti's made was that the genetics weren't diversified enough for delisting. When it was proven that they were, we hunted wolves that next year. I'm really surprised you would make a statement like you did without doing a little more research. When the real truth gets out about how much total devastation the wolves have really done, I think people will see things a whole lot different than they do today. All of the wolf and elk counts have been done with flawed computer modules they have now discovered. The carnage is far greater than the game departments were reporting. The wolf count is now believed to be almost double what they have reported, as well.
Guess I didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean to imply that the things won't travel. I know how far they will go. What I mean is that if they leave the NW part of the state they are dead. That is exactly what happened to the pack that went to the Bighorns. I think that is why Wyo. won't change their plan for any reason. There have been wolves that caused trouble near Casper, they didn't last long either. If they are spotted there is a plane in the air. Grizzlies are a different story. However if there are people where there are grizzlies the bears will get in trouble.
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
mustang58---You still are incorrect in your assessment and are also wrong in your statement about eliminating them. The Fed agent only killed 3 out of the pack that killed all the livestock near where I hunt and that means they are either still there and propagating or moved on and doing the same somewhere else! As far as I know, it was kept very quiet and never even went out to any news media in order to keep the huggers out of the picture! My guess is that you are talking about another pack that I haven't even heard about, if there was another pack. I know there is still at least one in our area because I took a picture of a track in the mud along a fenceline last September. It was only a week or two old and was taken while helping the rancher next to where the sheep were killed. If someone that knows how to post a picture on this website would give me their email address I will send that picture to them so they can post it here because it's in my computer files and I don't mess with those sites where you send your photos. If you get a look at it, you will definitely know it's not a coyote because my buddy put his hand next to it to show how large it was.
Last edited:
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
Good post Top,
I'm still rereading and absorbing all of the info.
People vote in a lot of ways sometimes they vote with their feet. I just spent the evening with our friends that guide us when we go north, and they report; THIS WOLF THING IN THE USA HAS BEEN GOOD FOR OUR BUSINESS CAN WE SEND YOU MORE. Their wolf trapline hunts continue to be booked farther into the future, as frustration here mounts, moose and goat hunts doing better and better as western hunting opportunity declines, and their moose populations are better with over a decade of aggressive wolf management, and guess what they still have plenty of wolves. Just thought you might like to hear it's working for someone. I've watched their trapline hunt grow from a family hobby to benefit their business (moose numbers) to a valued extension of the business ( 2 months worth of clients) booked a couple of years in advance. They kill 24-30 wolves in their area every year, some long range rifle with bait sets as well. Actually the above being good for business statement isn't their position-just the rough humor good friends indulge in when there is nothing they can do for you except laugh.
Another way to vote with your feet-the NRA has some explaining to do. I'll be contacting them. If I can't get a response to my liking they may get my card back. I BELIEVE THIS WOLF AGENDA ULTIMATELY TO BE A GRAB FOR GUNS. NO HUNTING NO-NEED FOR GUNS. A really poor strategic choice for the NRA-it splits our forces.
I'm still rereading and absorbing all of the info.
People vote in a lot of ways sometimes they vote with their feet. I just spent the evening with our friends that guide us when we go north, and they report; THIS WOLF THING IN THE USA HAS BEEN GOOD FOR OUR BUSINESS CAN WE SEND YOU MORE. Their wolf trapline hunts continue to be booked farther into the future, as frustration here mounts, moose and goat hunts doing better and better as western hunting opportunity declines, and their moose populations are better with over a decade of aggressive wolf management, and guess what they still have plenty of wolves. Just thought you might like to hear it's working for someone. I've watched their trapline hunt grow from a family hobby to benefit their business (moose numbers) to a valued extension of the business ( 2 months worth of clients) booked a couple of years in advance. They kill 24-30 wolves in their area every year, some long range rifle with bait sets as well. Actually the above being good for business statement isn't their position-just the rough humor good friends indulge in when there is nothing they can do for you except laugh.
Another way to vote with your feet-the NRA has some explaining to do. I'll be contacting them. If I can't get a response to my liking they may get my card back. I BELIEVE THIS WOLF AGENDA ULTIMATELY TO BE A GRAB FOR GUNS. NO HUNTING NO-NEED FOR GUNS. A really poor strategic choice for the NRA-it splits our forces.
cowboy
Well-Known Member
Don't camp by your mailbox or sit by your computer waiting for a response - it won't come - "Been There, Done That."
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
HARPERC---I also have no idea what in the H is going on with the NRA! I was a member for years and then dropped out when they started doing a lot that ****ed me off. Then I joined up again when BO got elected, but if they can't explain their wolf stance to my satisfaction, they will probably lose me again. As far as I'm concerned, all these wolf hugger groups main agendas is the elimination of huntable animals, which in turn will do exactly as you stated, and that is to basically eliminate a huge percentage of guns throughout our country. With no animals to hunt, it would be the perfect way to do exactly that. If these huggers are such animal lovers, why are they allowing all these big game animals to be decimated? (rhetorical question!)
Topgun, Your replyinpost#61 on Utahs shootem up stance. I s exactly the reason Maloy, may not vote in favor and did not before. He is suppose to be retiring, but gets to pick the cases he wants at this time. Im in NWMT, and this is in the paper weekly, and at any F&G meeting. Up here where I'm at you can't hunt them out because they live in too much dark timber, now that they are established they are going to be alot harder to deal with. I feel the frustration, I want to book some kind of wolf hunt up north in Canada, just so I can shoot onegun)
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
Wyoming's proposal on controlling wolf numbers isn't over the top. Key word in sentence CONTROLLING. The other options out there are public relations, and pressure release options. SSS may make you feel better for awhile, but even if you were armed with the latest AR type rifle and got the whole pack, their reproductive rates, pack range, and relocation of young for territory, it's not meaningful in the overall scheme of things. The Idaho, and Montana plans ditto. The only real good in these is you don't risk serious criminal penalties for venting your frustration.
The only way you will control (not eradicate) wolves, and maintain their numbers, and location is a combination of trapping, baiting, legalized electronic calling, poison, and aerial gunning.
Some game departments will sell you a unicorn tag if they could get away with it. If you look critically at some units, draw odds and success rates, you're as likely to see a unicorn as anything else. If we were to use what was considered good "management numbers" a decade ago, the game units in the heart of this would be closed for a decade. Easiest to validate this with is check the numbers for Montana's Gardner unit, and Wyoming's Jackson migration hunt. Many more should be on the list, and the consequence would be drastic cuts in Game department budgets. Unless of course you can dupe the general fund it's poachers causing it. Heck they saw the movie don't wolves only eat mice?
Sorry-appeasement does not move the ball 1 inch closer to the goal line. I've pretty well decided to send a deposit for the 2014 season, and do my part to help BC keep their wolf numbers down, maybe if help keep their numbers low they won't COD us another batch.
The only way you will control (not eradicate) wolves, and maintain their numbers, and location is a combination of trapping, baiting, legalized electronic calling, poison, and aerial gunning.
Some game departments will sell you a unicorn tag if they could get away with it. If you look critically at some units, draw odds and success rates, you're as likely to see a unicorn as anything else. If we were to use what was considered good "management numbers" a decade ago, the game units in the heart of this would be closed for a decade. Easiest to validate this with is check the numbers for Montana's Gardner unit, and Wyoming's Jackson migration hunt. Many more should be on the list, and the consequence would be drastic cuts in Game department budgets. Unless of course you can dupe the general fund it's poachers causing it. Heck they saw the movie don't wolves only eat mice?
Sorry-appeasement does not move the ball 1 inch closer to the goal line. I've pretty well decided to send a deposit for the 2014 season, and do my part to help BC keep their wolf numbers down, maybe if help keep their numbers low they won't COD us another batch.
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
sp6x6---First off, I assume you meant Wyoming, rather than Utah in your post. I'm not going back to post 61 to see what I said, but Wyoming will win this battle to keep wolves out of the rest of the state under their plan because the wolf numbers are huge now. They are way above the set numbers in the original plan that the USFWS accepted and then rescinded within the boundaries established in the plan and that's exactly why they are moving out all over the place. The only way to control their numbers is exactly what HARPERC mentioned in his last post and that is very difficult when they are in heavy cover. That's exactly why they only got 3 out of the pack in the area I hunt. Malloy needs to retire and keep his fat butt out of the whole thing because all he is doing is feeding from the political trough the antis are continually filling with their money! He made up his own science with this genetic bull just as an excuse to rule like he did because he couldn't come up with anything else to make his ruling. Judge Johnson did the proper thing in his ruling and the Feds finally dropped their lawsuit in his court because they are scared if pending legislation goes through the ESA will go down the tubes and a bunch of them will be out of jobs. Wyoming could kill every wolf now outside the recovery zone, which will never happen even if they try, and the wolf population will still stay way above what everyone agreed upon back in the 90s when the introduction started. It's all the antis and politics and I can smell it all the way here in Michigan because it stinks so bad!!!
