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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Moving from 338 to 7mm.
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<blockquote data-quote="Pdvdh" data-source="post: 1133290" data-attributes="member: 4191"><p>Terminal bullet performance in any caliber selection is even more important than bullet caliber, in my experiences.</p><p></p><p>I've experienced .338, .308, and .284 bullets fail to expand with otherwise lethal hits on large game animals, and there was no apparent improvement in disabling/killing affect on these animals based on bullet caliber. Other than the animal hit with the non-expanding .338 was a mid-sized black bear that took off like a scalded cat heading for the first available cover on the mountainside. But that's what bears tend to do with any hit, more so than the dall sheep that were hit with the .308 and .284 bullets. I and my hunting buddy emptied our rifles trying to slow / stop that bear before he reached cover.</p><p></p><p>I know a guy that's lived and hunted in a remote location on Kodiak Island for the past 35yrs. He's killed a few brown bear over the years. He told me one particularly memorable story about the largest brown bear he ever shot. He described the bear as frighteningly huge. He shot the bear with a .375 H&H magnum, full metal jacket bullets. Bear was about 70yds. Shot him broadside thru the ribs as the bear was sitting on his butt leaning his back up against a tree. Bear lets out some blood curdling growls and takes off. There was tracking snow on the ground. He gives the bear plenty of time to expire before following the tracks. Lots of blood for the first 400 yds in the snow. Not too much after that. He tracked that bear up into the mountains for more than 1 1/2 miles, until he lost tracking snow. The bear never really bedded down for any significant period of time. This guy's a crack shot at the closer ranges. He didn't recover the bear for undeniable proof of bullet impact location and terminal performance. But after being unable to find this bear, he set up some targets and fired a few rounds and he pasted them with boring regularity at the same distance the bear was - so his sights were dead on. </p><p></p><p>With expanding/expanded bullets, I also subscribe to the larger the caliber, the quicker the game or predator is disabled/killed. However punch a caliber size hole thru their ribs - from .284 up to .338 - and I haven't been able to discern any difference in the affect on the animal. I'm aware of one clear exception to this that comes to mind (even though it's inapplicable to long range hunting). It's largely based on the experiences of others I've talked with. The 12 gauge Brenneke slug at close range is deadly even on brown bear sized animals. These slugs don't expand. Clearly their unexpanded caliber and flat frontal face is sufficient to deliver a crippling blow. I killed a bull moose with one into the ribs at 120 yds, and it proved quite lethal.</p><p></p><p>My primary take-home message having read Broz's experiences with his 300 WM / Berger 215gr Hybrids hunting elk, is that the Berger 215gr Hybrid terminal performance has been outstanding on elk. The lesser take home is that larger caliber bullets dispatch animals with more authority, given similar terminal bullet performance. Largely because I've observed the same benefits from larger caliber bullets on moose and brown bear, as have other experienced Alaskan hunters/guides. </p><p></p><p>I'm not aware of any bear guides using 7mm calibers to back up their clients on brown bear hunts. 30 cal is about the smallest I've heard of. 338 and 375 are probably most common. A few will carry 458s.</p><p></p><p>Thanks for sharing your information Broz. My focus on bullet performance causes me to ask; regarding your prior use and experiences with the 300 WM 210 VLD on elk. I've reviewed your thread comparing the 210 to the 215, and I understand that the 215 has a higher BC value and can normally be pushed to a slightly higher MV. Based on the additional elk killed with the 215 Hybrid, could you sum up comparative differences in terminal performance between the 210 VLD and the 215 Hybrid in a single sentence? As in a little better? Moderately better? Substantially better?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pdvdh, post: 1133290, member: 4191"] Terminal bullet performance in any caliber selection is even more important than bullet caliber, in my experiences. I've experienced .338, .308, and .284 bullets fail to expand with otherwise lethal hits on large game animals, and there was no apparent improvement in disabling/killing affect on these animals based on bullet caliber. Other than the animal hit with the non-expanding .338 was a mid-sized black bear that took off like a scalded cat heading for the first available cover on the mountainside. But that's what bears tend to do with any hit, more so than the dall sheep that were hit with the .308 and .284 bullets. I and my hunting buddy emptied our rifles trying to slow / stop that bear before he reached cover. I know a guy that's lived and hunted in a remote location on Kodiak Island for the past 35yrs. He's killed a few brown bear over the years. He told me one particularly memorable story about the largest brown bear he ever shot. He described the bear as frighteningly huge. He shot the bear with a .375 H&H magnum, full metal jacket bullets. Bear was about 70yds. Shot him broadside thru the ribs as the bear was sitting on his butt leaning his back up against a tree. Bear lets out some blood curdling growls and takes off. There was tracking snow on the ground. He gives the bear plenty of time to expire before following the tracks. Lots of blood for the first 400 yds in the snow. Not too much after that. He tracked that bear up into the mountains for more than 1 1/2 miles, until he lost tracking snow. The bear never really bedded down for any significant period of time. This guy's a crack shot at the closer ranges. He didn't recover the bear for undeniable proof of bullet impact location and terminal performance. But after being unable to find this bear, he set up some targets and fired a few rounds and he pasted them with boring regularity at the same distance the bear was - so his sights were dead on. With expanding/expanded bullets, I also subscribe to the larger the caliber, the quicker the game or predator is disabled/killed. However punch a caliber size hole thru their ribs - from .284 up to .338 - and I haven't been able to discern any difference in the affect on the animal. I'm aware of one clear exception to this that comes to mind (even though it's inapplicable to long range hunting). It's largely based on the experiences of others I've talked with. The 12 gauge Brenneke slug at close range is deadly even on brown bear sized animals. These slugs don't expand. Clearly their unexpanded caliber and flat frontal face is sufficient to deliver a crippling blow. I killed a bull moose with one into the ribs at 120 yds, and it proved quite lethal. My primary take-home message having read Broz's experiences with his 300 WM / Berger 215gr Hybrids hunting elk, is that the Berger 215gr Hybrid terminal performance has been outstanding on elk. The lesser take home is that larger caliber bullets dispatch animals with more authority, given similar terminal bullet performance. Largely because I've observed the same benefits from larger caliber bullets on moose and brown bear, as have other experienced Alaskan hunters/guides. I'm not aware of any bear guides using 7mm calibers to back up their clients on brown bear hunts. 30 cal is about the smallest I've heard of. 338 and 375 are probably most common. A few will carry 458s. Thanks for sharing your information Broz. My focus on bullet performance causes me to ask; regarding your prior use and experiences with the 300 WM 210 VLD on elk. I've reviewed your thread comparing the 210 to the 215, and I understand that the 215 has a higher BC value and can normally be pushed to a slightly higher MV. Based on the additional elk killed with the 215 Hybrid, could you sum up comparative differences in terminal performance between the 210 VLD and the 215 Hybrid in a single sentence? As in a little better? Moderately better? Substantially better? [/QUOTE]
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