More on my Wildcat bullet testing.

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by 4ked Horn, Feb 13, 2006.

  1. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Well last week we came back with 100 yard shots with some 169.5 grain Wildcat ULD RBBt and FB bullets. This week we have a 300 yard group of each and the results were surprising.

    I'll admit that I should have fired a few groups of each but we were also planning on doing some ATV and motorcycle riding so I only fired one group of each bullet then we packed up and went to get muddy.

    Last week the neater looking group at 100 yards were the flat base bullets and the longer group were the RBBTs. This week it was the opposite. Way opposite! Here is the 3 shot group of the RBBTs that measures just under one inch. The light wind may have had something todo with the horizontal shape. But I'll take 1/3 MOA at 300 every day of the week.
    [​IMG]

    But then I fired the FBs and I have no idea what happened. Is this what is meant by "sometimes a gun just wont like a certian bullet"? And I noticed the third shot went "flyer" to the right and #4 came back toward the group (way back this time).
    [​IMG]

    Kirby, I would especially like your input here if you would. Is it acceptable that two almost identical loads and bullets would do something like this?

    If anyone else has a comment please jump in. At this point I am ready to go full bore working on a load for the RBBTs and say "so long" to the FBs.
     

  2. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    [ QUOTE ]

    But I'll take 1/3 MOA at 300 every day of the week.
    <font color="blue">Looks to me to be a bit under 1/3 MOA </font>

    At this point I am ready to go full bore working on a load for the RBBTs and say "so long" to the FBs.

    <font color="blue">I'd do the same thing, for cosmetic reasons only, though. Looking at a FB bullet is like looking at Marlyn Monroe with out any legs! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif:eek: </font>


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Regarding the flat base shooting different this week? Its just like Meichele says above in his sig: "Because any other sport just would not be frustrating enough!!"
     

  3. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    If you go back to your earlier post showing the initial 100 yd targets with each of these bullets you will find an interesting pattern with the flat base bullets. The bullets move to the right for three shots and then the fourth shot is back to the left.

    You do not show the sequence of shoots for the RBBT so it is not clear if it has the same apattern.
     
  4. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Question is, How does the gun know which shot is third of the FB since I fired the RBBTs and then the FBs as though they were one string? Maybe there was a little more cooling between the two types but the gun never moved from the bench.
     
  5. remingtonman_25_06

    remingtonman_25_06 Well-Known Member

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    Thats some good shooting with the rbbt's at 300 yards. I was not surprised to see a 1 inch group at 300 yards. I experienced the same thing with the 125g rbbt out of my stock winchester 25-06. Absolutely the most accurate bullet I have shot out of it. I am anxious to get a 300 or 300/338 RUM built and try the 225g rbbt, or the 300g rbbt and see what happens. When you can get 1 inch groups at 300 with factory rifles, just goes to show how accurate factory rifles can be, with great bullets as well.
     
  6. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Well,

    Could be something as simple as your rifle just preferring the ULD RBBTs at longer ranges. This is THE reason why it is much better to test loads at longer ranges. At 100 yards, most loads look very good in a quality rifle. At farther ranges the personality of the loads and the rifles bullet preference come into play.

    Getting a bit more involved, you say there was a slight crosswind. Remember the ULD RBBT will have a significantly higher BC value then the flat base bullet. This means it will buck the wind a bit better or should I say be less effected by the wind compared to the FB bullet.

    Is this the reason you are seeing 1" groups with the ULD RBBT and are printing +5" groups, I doubt it.

    More then likely this would be my opinion from looking at the targets, shoot more groups.....

    One good group and one bad group means very little for determining a good load from a great load or even a bad load.

    We have all pulled a shot here and there even if we hate to admit it. You take that third shot off the FB group and it looks alot better!! If by chance you saw that third shot fly and got a bit jumpy on the fourth shot as well, the group will go south quick. Rememeber your first two shots went into 3/4".

    My advice, take an average of say five three shot groups and see which one performs best. You can get an idea that a load is a good one with one group but to prove its a good or bad load will take much more then one group, at least for me it does,

    Both groups are noticably horizontal in shape. Any stock issues here contacting the barrel? Barrel heat can do some strange things, as can very slight barrel contact.

    One other thing, are these two bullets made off the same jacket? If they are then you should not have any problems shooting them without cleaning in between. If they are different then you should always clean before testing another bullet.

    I suspect that they are the same jacket but just checking.

    All in all, do some more shooting. If you get an average of five three shot groups or whatever you want to shoot, you will have a much more meaningful idea of what the load will or won't do.

    Good luck, keep us posted.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  7. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Thats some good shooting with the rbbt's at 300 yards.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Thanks. It has me very excited. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
     
  8. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Thanks Kirby. We were all chomping at the bit to go riding by this time of the day. The wind was picking up and the kids were getting bored. I at least wanted to get two groups off but I agree, more groups will be better. Please watch for them.

    The jackets are the same from what I understand.

    I am only testing these bullets to get an indication of how my rifle likes Wildcats. I will be recieving very similar bullets with the .030" jackets if we get the desired results from these and I contact Richard with a "ship em" email. I hope he has seen these pictures. I should email him tomorrow evening.

    That third shot is a gremlin for sure. I will check the float on the BBL AGAIN and tighten the screws good. You are right about losing the third shot and having a decent group. If I could squoonch the horizontal out of them the vertical would be outstanding.

    Another quick question. My velocities at the muzzle are right around 2550. Abinok suggested using a 175 gr SMK instead of the 168 nosler J4s to keep things supersonic past 1000 yards. I would be doing just that right now if Richard hadn't arrived on the scene. Do you think the BC on these 169.5 ULD RBBT HPs will keep me supersonic or should I request that extra 5 grains when I order bullets?
     
  9. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    On the receiver screws, remember that overtightening then can be as detrimental to accuracy as loose depending on the bedding system you have in the stock.

    For pillar bedded rifles I like around 55 to 65 in/lbs but have seen many rifles shoot extremely well down to 40 in/lbs as well.

    In a conventionally bedded rifle, I limit things to around 50 in/lbs to prevent stock crushing as much as possible.

    To be honest, I seldom use a torque wrench unless I get a rifle that is giving the owner trouble with consistancy. In a qality bedding, I have found that as long as the bedding is stress free, torque setting really don't make all that much difference. In a conventional inletted stock this can cause extreme variations though.

    Onto bullets, I would be suprised if the 169.5 gr ULD RBBT did not have at least as high of a BC as the 175 Sierra MK.

    Remember its bullet length and meplat design mainly that contributes to BC value, bullet weight has nothing really to do with it except that generally a heavier bullet is a longer bullet.

    Best advice I can give is that if you want to see if they stay super sonic at 1000 yards, shoot them at 1000 yards and see how consistant they are.

    Running your velocity numbers through my Exbal, I just am not sure what Abinok is talking about concerning staying supersonic to 1000 yards.

    At 2550 fps you could use a bullet with a BC of .450 and still have a retained velocity of +1100 fps at 3000 ft altitude in 20 degree temps. With a .550 BC bullet you would have right at 1300 fps retained velocity.

    With a .600 BC bullet you would be just a bit shy of 1400 fps. In fact with a .600 BC bullet you would stay over 1100 fps out to 1300 yards so I guess this recommendation confuses me a bit. Its not a trick to stay super sonic out to 1000 yards with any of these bullets to be honest.

    Now I am not going to get into the exact BC value of this bullet. IF you recall, we got into a huge pissing match over this several months ago so I will say nothing of the bullets true BC and let you guys figure it out.

    I will tell you though, at your velocity, you will have no problem staying super sonic to 1000 yards.

    Make some more groups and see what happens!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  10. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    10-4 on all that Kirby. Thanks.

    Abinok suggested the 175 when I was asking around on going from a 168 SMK type bullet to something else. I had noticed during a casual range day that at around 800 yards things seemed to fall appart. I ran numbers and the 175 seemed like a suitable change to try for hitting at 1k and staying sonic. Then I found out about Wildcats and since then I have been dealing with 169.5 gr. This is more than acceptable to me if you have confidence in their discovered BC. I am also planning on going to BL-c2 for working up loads to get a few more fps out of this humble .308.

    I suppose then, when the time comes, I will stick with the 169.5 weight and have confidence that if I can do my part the ULD RBBT will do it's part.

    This is all actually gravy beyond 600 since the foremost task of this gun is deer and chucks come in a distant second. They are actually just practice and a confidence builder for the meat part of my hunting.

    Thanks for all your valuable advice.