More confused than ever

[Chas1]

Montanafifleman, thanks, I didn't want to assume those were the numbers you ran the ballistics on. What load are you using to hit the 3300 fps?

 

[MontanaRifleman]

What about the 7mm Allen mag? What does this cartridge do with the 180 bergers and the 200 wildcat bullets. I would love to see these numbers

You should do a search on that. The 7AM is a hot cartridge for sure but it will smoke a barrel pretty quick. If you get one, get two barrels.

 

[Chas1]

darrindlh, Berger does not particularly like to be drive much over 3250 fps which is pretty mild load in the 7mm AM.

 

[darrindlh]

I did not know that. Man do I have alot to learn! you guys are awsome. I am learning a ton from ya'll. It seems that there is not a good bullet to exploit the velocity of the 7mm AM.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

darrindlh, Berger does not particularly like to be drive much over 3250 fps which is pretty mild load in the 7mm AM.

True for the "hunting" bullets, but the thicker target bullets should hold up to the higher velocities which is why they were developed.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Montanafifleman, thanks, I didn't want to assume those were the numbers you ran the ballistics on. What load are you using to hit the 3300 fps?

Chas, I just noticed this post. I based the 3300 fps on reports I've read in these forums and comparative to other cartridges like the 7 Dakota and STW.

 

[Chas1]

darrindlh, here's a good bullet to exploit the velocity of the 7mm AM the 175 smk works very well in the 7mm AM, capable of 3400+ fps. its a very viable choice for big game hunting, although the 7mm AM or any 7mm I feel is not an ideal choice for elk hunting past 1000 yards. if you intend to reach past 1000 yards on elk, go to a 338.

 

[Chas1]

MontanaRifleman, you mentioned "True for the "hunting" bullets, but the thicker target bullets should hold up to the higher velocities which is why they were developed". That got me interested since darrindlh's original post stated the purpose of my rifle is to be able to ethically take Antelope and Deer over 1k and moose and elk up to 1k. Would you recommend he use Berger target bullets.

Any success running ballistic comparison 7mm rum vs 338AX and 338AM?

 

[Chas1]

Chas, I just noticed this post. I based the 3300 fps on reports I've read in these forums and comparative to other cartridges like the 7 Dakota and STW.

I did some checking also to see if I could find some loads and although I found some post where guys were getting sometimes a little less than 3300 and some getting a little more than 3300 they didn't give any powder types or grains...If I land on one I'll shoot it to you if you want.

 

[darrindlh]

Chas1 do you use the method of 1800 minimal fps to take game at extreme range. Also why does Mr. Rayhill push the 7mm. The reason I even started this post was because I to was set on a bigger caliber. How ever Mr. Rayhill talked to me for half an hour about why he loves and builds the 7wsm and the 7rayhill rocket. this is exatctly what Kirby calls the Allen mag. And so has me thinking! Again thank you for all of your help

Darrin

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I did some checking also to see if I could find some loads and although I found some post where guys were getting sometimes a little less than 3300 and some getting a little more than 3300 they didn't give any powder types or grains...If I land on one I'll shoot it to you if you want.

Chas, much appreciated but I have a 300 RUM and not a 7 RUM although I've toyed with the idea a lot. If I got one I would go with Retumbo and H1000 with the 180's

On using the "target" VLDs for hunting, Berger's position on that is that they haven't tried them on game yet. The jacket at the point is the same thickness as the hunting bullets and gradualy tapers to thicker at the bearing surface. They will likely hold up better than the SMK 175's - reason I say that is I've read a report about the 175's coming apart in a 7 RUM with a 7 twist while the "hunting" 180 VLD's held up better out of the same barrel.

Interesting to consider the SMK 175 vs the 180 target as hunting bullets. The SMK's are advertised as target bullets only. To advertise them as expanding hunting bullets would be inconsistant with the requirements of Sierra's biggest client, the DoD.

My choice would be the 180's because they have a much better BC than the 175'a and I think they would perform better. My expectation on their hunting performance is purely speculation. But their meplat is the same as the "hunting" bullets and the jacket thickness at the meplat is also the same.

 

[Michael Eichele]

You should do a search on that. The 7AM is a hot cartridge for sure but it will smoke a barrel pretty quick. If you get one, get two barrels.

That is for sure! The 7mm RUM isnt far behind in the barrel burning department.

180 (284) at 3300 (MV) at 1K = 1500 pounds of energy and 49" of 10 MPH of drift.

300 (338) at 2830 (MV) at 1K = 1766 pounds of energy and 51" of 10 MPH of drift.

At 1500 yards, the 338 is still over 1200 pounds versus just over 800 pounds of energy with identical wind drifts.

It would be interesting to see how the numbers would add up if and when Berger ever gets their 300 grain bullet on the market.

Add the benefit of much better barrel life of the 338 and the super hot 7 mags just dont seem that appealing.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Michael, the reason that the 7mm RUM would be more appealing to me is that the recoil would be much more managable without a brake and it is a flatter shooter. For those who like brakes, the big 338's are hard to beat.

 

[bigngreen]

One comparison that is easy to get numbers for is to compare the AM lines, http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/allen-mags-33058/ , if you lay out the 7AM with the 200 Wildcat the 338AX and the 338AM with the 300SMK the ballistics of the 7mm are more appealing to me, less wind drift, less MOA more velocity with less powder and a lighter rifle. I don't think and elk would know the difference between the 200gr bullet vs the 300gr bullet as the 200gr is retaining so much more velocity. But it seems to hinge on being able to shoot the 200gr bullet.
That all being said I would get a 338 that pushes a 300gr bullet a 3000fps + just because of the barrel life and those chamberings have proven to be super stable and reliable performers.
If I were to go the 7mm route lightbulb I would build a switch barrel Savage, run the 7WSM with the 180 Berger and shoot it constantly and have a 7RUM barrel that I could run the 200gr bullets out of as a single shot.