Moly or Not?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Guest, Dec 14, 2003.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I have not used moly but am just starting to look into it. What advantage do you get using moly bullets? Do you moly your own bullets and how? How often and how do you clean the barrel when using moly? I shoot a 270 win. and on some varmint shoots accuracy drops before I am ready to go home and was thinking moly might help.
     
  2. rost495

    rost495 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Harv

    The benefits I see are increased shooting with no cleaning and less pressure. Run an 80 at 2800 bare vs an 80 moly at 2800 and you'll use a bit more powder with the moly but you'll have less pressure.

    What I dont' see is increased accuracy(could never tell that it was better or worse IE stayed the same) and could never say I have had longer barrel life. That also stayed the same.

    I moly my own in the RCBS sidewinder tumbler. I use #4 steel shot, Neco Wax and Dow moly(because a friend worked for dow and had some)

    I shoot sometimes up to 400 rounds in practice before cleaning. With iron sights at 300 yards in the prone position with a sling the rifle is still capable of MOA accuracy at this point.(about as good as I can shoot) I've never benched it a high round count to see exactly whats going on. All I can say is I can't tell any difference at 300 or 600 yards.

    If I have time at some point I'll run a wet patch, followed by a brush and a couple of dry patches every 200 rounds or so. When I clean I'll wet the bore with hoppes 9BR Copper solvent. Then I brush it about 10 times. Push that out with patches. Hit the barrel with 2 rounds of JB loaded patches. Then run solvent again and dry patches and then wet the bore and leave it for a day to see how clean we are. I have no zero changes after cleaning. But we are shooting a large 200 yard target standing as our first shots of the day. Often times with a clean bore and naked bullets I could see the impact difference for about 2-4 shots. I used to make sure my barrels were fouled in those days.

    I know thats not scientific, but it answers the questions I need to cover for XC shooting. Hope it helps.

    Jeff
     

  3. chris matthews

    chris matthews Well-Known Member

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    rost495,
    The way I always understood it was by putting more powder under a moly bullet to bring velocity back up to snuff with the non-moly bullet, you brought the pressure back up. More powder= more pressure=more velocity.
    Which is pretty much why I don't use moly- why burn more powder to do the same thing?
    Plus I haven't seen any real loss of accuracy in high # of shots with no cleaning. 80-120 in 308, 200 in 223.
     
  4. rost495

    rost495 Well-Known Member

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    I use moly in all my match rifles. I can see advantages since I shoot at least 88 shots without cleaning and the last of these shots will be at the longest range. I can see no disadvantage to it. But I shoot 223 almost exclusively.

    Moving up in the world to long range hunting rifles-- what is the consensus?

    Jeff
     
  5. H-BAR

    H-BAR Well-Known Member

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    Rost- I too use moly coating in my 223. I find when hunting with the 223 that the moly does not cause any problems and probably helps by less engraving of the bullet. When shooting deer this is a plus for a 22cal bullet because it allows better penetration before the bullet comes apart. I find moly coating as a detriment on larger bullets for the very same reason that it helps the smaller bullets. With the larger thicker jacketed bullets I have actually had some bullets not expand when they were moly coated. To me this is a problem!!! I attribute this to the engraving being decreased and total bullet deformation to be less. I now am a firm believer that the larger bullets need this deformation to expand properly. Good Luck!!!
     
  6. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    Been using moly for several years now and come to this conclusion. For really smooth match barrels, no harm but really not much benefit. For rougher production and aftermarket barrels, can have significant benefits.

    I use the midway system and have found it to work very well. Simple and effective. I do not wax my bullets.

    Have used in all cal I shoot from 22 to 30cal. No problems with hunting bullets on game.

    Overall, I use it because it is simple to put on and doesn't seem to hurt and might just help. Never done a side by side comparison.

    Jerry
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I agree with Jerry on the attributes of moly for rough factory barrels. Not needing it in Chris' 5R barrels is understandable, also. I had a M700 VS in .223 and it did very well with moly, but I have since gone away from using it all together, as I only have one factory tube left, and it only sees one shot at a time. Its a M700 SS in a McMillan Mt Rifle stock and is chambered in .300WM.
     
  8. rost495

    rost495 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Chris

    Its Jeff here. I don't know if it holds true for bigger rounds but in the 223 with pressure testing, you can get to a higher MV (sure you use a bit more powder but whats a half or full grain) at the same pressure by using moly. So if I"m limited to 60 kpsi then, for example, I can safely go to 2700 fps with a bare 80 at 60kpsi while I can go to 2850 fps with a moly 80 at the same 60 kpsi. BTW in my experience with going 200 rounds of 223 with bare bullets, I can tell it in my 600 and beyond scores. While my short line 300 and under never suffered much. Since going to moly I've cleaned 600 with better than 50% x count out of my service rifle, with over 350 rounds in the tube. I doubt that could have happened with bare bullets and that round count.

    Seems the consensus is that moly is like it is in the HP game. Use it or don't. Whatever you like.

    I am leaning a bit more to non moly in the next hunting rifle and we'll see how it works.

    Thanks for all the input folks!!

    Jeff
     
  9. RuffHewn

    RuffHewn Well-Known Member

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    Moly lowers pressure, flattens the pressure curve, and moves the peak pressure a couple of inches down the bore.

    Slightly higher velocity is possible with moly but the important benefit, IMO, is increased round count before cleaning and then a much simpler and faster cleaning. I clean with 1 oiled patch followed by 3 dry patches. I am currently using BreakFree CLP but have used CRC 5-56 and know others who use any light oil with equal results.

    I moly my own bullets with SF grade moly from Rose Mill Co as price was slightly better than Dow for 1 lbs. I tumble only bullets and moly powder (no steel shot) in large pill bottles. No dedicated tumbler bowl is required and clouds of moly are not produced when using the pill bottles. 10 oz soda bottles do just as well as pill bottles and availablilty is better. I do not wax.

    IMO it is better to start with a bore that is either properly broken in so does not show signficant copper fouling after 15-20 shots with non-moly bullets, or with bore hand lapped to the extent that the barrel maker agrees is suitable for moly with the first rounds.

    Clean the bore and prep with moly paste or cream sold for the pupose. Avoid molying the chamber. I used a cartridge case with the head drilled and a short length of 3/8" pvc with my .300WSM but you can use a comercial bore guide if you do not mind moly coating it's interior as well as your bore.