Mixing powder !!!??

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by sniper2, Feb 5, 2007.

  1. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone have experience with this?
     
  2. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Yup.

    I have tried Rl-19 with RL-15. Obviously NOT iin a case that uses RL-19 but a case that uses RL-15. Also I have used H50BMG with Retumbo looking for a fill in the gap between the two.

    Both the 308 and the 300 RUM with the mixed powders didnt shoot very well. I tried various percentages including 50/50. Also tried mixing evenly as well as all of one on bottom and all of one on top. Like I said, none shot well enough to continue doing it. Quite frankly, it is probably a nightmare waiting to happen, so I just dont do it anymore. I enjoy shooting too much to blow something off or worse.

    Good luck!
     

  3. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    WHY?

    With all the powders today, it is quite easy to find one that works without blowing your face off.

    BH
     
  4. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you surely there are more that have tried this?How about flash hole tweaking?
     
  5. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    What do you mean by tweaking?

    Most in the extreme accuracy game uniform the flashholes and bevel the inside of the hole. they also uniform the primer pockets.

    If you are talking about enlarging the flasholes, then that has been done with worse or at best mixed results normally. However, many open the Br flashholes from .059 to .062 with good results depending on the bullet and powder combo.

    Many will use machinist guage pins to accurately measure flashholes and then uniform to max diameter based on largest hole. That calls for custom flashhole reamer. They will also use large guage pins to accurately measure the neck diameter after sizing to control neck tension.

    IF you want to try it, start of with 5 cases, enlarge, shoot over chrono with proven load and then enlarge a little more etc. do not start with 100 cases thinking it will be a miracle cure. It will probably "cure your wallet" buying more cases, bullets and powder.

    BH
     
  6. edge

    edge Well-Known Member

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    My question would be why?

    I use duplex loads all of the time, but that is because of a special situation.

    Shooting .458 and .505 rifles with 150 grain 0.308 diameter bullets inside of a plastic sabot does not allow sufficient pressure to burn reasonable quantities of slow powder. Therefore I use a medium fast powder to build enough pressure to burn the slower powder without damaging the sabot and keeping the overall pressure down.

    edge.
     
  7. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    My answer is can R&D be beneficial?
     
  8. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    What do you mean by tweaking?

    Most in the extreme accuracy game uniform the flashholes and bevel the inside of the hole. they also uniform the primer pockets.

    If you are talking about enlarging the flasholes, then that has been done with worse or at best mixed results normally. However, many open the Br flashholes from .059 to .062 with good results depending on the bullet and powder combo.

    Many will use machinist guage pins to accurately measure flashholes and then uniform to max diameter based on largest hole. That calls for custom flashhole reamer. They will also use large guage pins to accurately measure the neck diameter after sizing to control neck tension.

    IF you want to try it, start of with 5 cases, enlarge, shoot over chrono with proven load and then enlarge a little more etc. do not start with 100 cases thinking it will be a miracle cure. It will probably "cure your wallet" buying more cases, bullets and powder.

    BH

    [/ QUOTE ]Have you tried this?
     
  9. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Have I tried it, YES. That is why I say it has mixed results particularily opening flasholes past the .062 size IMO.

    I also use pin guages to measure neck tension and then seat with arbor press with dial indicator on top to measure seating force, then spin bullets for concentricity.

    I have Juenke'd bullets and fired cases. Ran cases over a chrono to sort by MV etc.

    Tried it all and then some. Some works a little, some does not and some "just feels good"!

    BH
     
  10. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    If it works a little and makes you feel good doesn't r&d have merit?
     
  11. edge

    edge Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    My answer is can R&D be beneficial?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hmmm an answer with a question /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    Sure, but there is normally a goal. You could try square wheels on your car but it might be bumpy!

    I asked why you wanted to, and then explained my reasoning for doing it. If H4198 is a perfect powder for your loads why would you want to mix two or three powders to duplicate what H4198 already does?? On the other hand. if you have a case capacity issue or extra light or extra heavy bullets or perhaps an extra long/short barrel then it may make a lot of sense....if done carefully.

    edge.
     
  12. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    SOME things work a little, some have no proof. In the 1k BR game, very few things give "major" improvements, but you might find things that individually give minor improvements but when groups are measured to .001, ever little bit helps.

    Start with the best brass, best bullets and barrels. After that consistency in loading technique (seating force, annealling etc) to control neck tension.

    IF it makes you feel good and you have the time, go for it but do not expect dramatic positive results. It often goes the other way.

    Change one thing at a time, test, repeat and repeat again.

    some guys weigh primers. does it work? my Ohaus digital scale weighs to .001 and not sure what they are actually weighing so I never went in for that.

    I Juenke bullets except clinch rivers and BIBs. I juenke fired cases. I ream flasholes, sort to .5% of weight (no more which means .5 gr normally), I ream primer pockets, neck turn and trim, seat with arbor press with dial indicator, anneal case necks. I sort all other bullets by base to ogive, weight etc I have repeated tests to prove to me, that those things work for ME in 1k BR with my calibers and guns.

    Back to the original issue, mixing powder and duplex loads. 99.9% of most reloaders do not have the experience to even attempt it safely. They have a hard enough time building accurate and consistent handloads with what they currently use. Very damn few cartridges really need a mixed powder load in reality. we have good powders all the way up through 50 cal so just what cartridge really NEEDS a mixed or duplex load? If not careful, it is an accident waiting to happen. Might only be a ruptured case and broken sear but it could be more significant and for no useful purpose in reality.

    Reminds me of the times when we used to use a B1 can(OK for you young whipper snappers, that is the small can out of the C-rations of years ago) of gas in the bottom of a hot mortar tube before we dropped a round to get an extra 300m when we needed. Not accurate or safe, but desperate times called for desperate measures.

    3 Powders are in between Retumbo and 50 BMG on the burn chart. no need to mix!

    167. Retumbo (Hodgdon)
    168. H870 (Hodgdon)
    169. N170 (Vihtavuori)
    170. 24N41 (Vihtavuori)
    171. 50 BMG (Hodgdon)

    BH
     
  13. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    If it wasn't for experimentation we would probably only have three or four different burning rates or square wheels
    as you put it...
     
  14. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    Every little bit has always helped.Nothing ventured equals nothing gained, if we accecpt the norm how can we hope to advance?I was never impressed with Retumbo or 50bmg.H870 and
    clones have shown promise...