Okay, I some what got a grasp on moa. still tricks and stuff to them but I some what have an idea. What is mils. Is it the meterics version of moa? what is the advantage of using it versus moa? Thanks

One mil represents 3.6" at 100 yds and 36" at 1000 yds. This can be very adavatageous when ranging an object of a known or approximate size i.e., an elk's chest or the silhouette of a man. Knowing the approximate size of the target makes for a very accurate range estimation to the target with the use of a mil-dot style reticle. Range, come-up, bang!

No advantage at all.- just use the same system in reticle, clicks and chart and both work. 1 mil is a measure of an angle that covers 10 cm at 100m, 100 cm. or 1 m at 1000 m. So if you use 1/10 mil clicks in scope, and can estimate sizes in cm/m, better use the mil system. If you mix mils with inches and moa,,, then of course it gets complicate.

screech, Seems like you are where I once was. Having the reticle in Mils and the clicks in MOA is as useless at tits on a boar hog. Really! Someone said it a bit nicer above.... No one, that I know of and I don't know everyone, makes Mil ret. and Mil clicks. MOA reticle and MOA clicks are the cat's meow. I have 3 Mil Dot scopes and don't use the reticle for anything except the intersection for aiming. Every thing is done in MOA clicks. For ranging the whole idea doesn't come close to a good LRF. Just one guy's experience.

[ QUOTE ] No one, that I know of and I don't know everyone, makes Mil ret. and Mil clicks. [/ QUOTE ] USO, S&B, Zeiss, Hensholt, Nightforce (special order) and some IOR are all available with Mil clicks to match the reticle.

[ QUOTE ] Knowing the approximate size of the target makes for a very accurate range estimation to the target with the use of a mil-dot style reticle. [/ QUOTE ] A quick formula to use for range estimation is: Target in inches * 27.778 / MILS = Range to target. Most game I hunt is 18" from back to brisket. 18*27.778 = 500. That is always easy to remember. 500 / mils. Ussually it can be done within a 25 yard margin of error out to 800 yards. Not perfect but valuable if your LRF goes 'tango uniform'. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Also, in Alaska where we have antler restrictions on moose (50" or greater), it can be used in reverse for horn size estimation if you know the range to target (laser RF). As has been stated a mil = 3.6" at 100 yards. AKA 3.44 MOA at all ranges. Mil dot reticles (1st generation) work exceptionaly well with 308's and similar trajectories out to 600 or 700 yards depending on the load and zero. With a flatter magnums the 2nd generation mil dots work much better for matching hold overs to impacts.

screech, This is the easiest way I explain to my self what a milliradian is, from the picture below, we see the following: A] 1 Mil = 3.6 inches at 100 yards. B] That means that in 27.778 yards there is exactly 1". Now it's simple: If using a Mildot reticle, a target that is 18" high gives me exactly 3 mildots then here is how I figure the distance and still being able to understand it and not just memorize it. If for every inch of target dimension I get 27.778 yards for one milliradian, then 27.778 X 18" = 500 yars for one milliradian. BUT... IT WAS NOT one milliradian, it was 3; therefore 500/3 = 167 yards rounded. All that boils down to what has been previously said: Distance = [Higth of target in inches]x[27.778]/[Higth of target in Mils] Distance = [18" X 27.778]/[3] = 167 yards. Now that I understand where those numbers are coming from, I pay attention to what meichele said: [ QUOTE ] Most game I hunt is 18" from back to brisket. 18*27.778 = 500. That is always easy to remember. 500 / mils. [/ QUOTE ] So... if your hunting let's say Mule deer and we mesure him to have 1.5 mils all we do is 500/1.5 = 333 yards away. I hope this helps.