Mauser rifle - identifcation...

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by hmostert1, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. hmostert1

    hmostert1 Member

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    Hallo everybody!

    I'm Hein and I'm new on your fantastic forum. I own several Musgrave rifles (South African made) and can help with info if somebody need it.

    I received a old Mauser rifle in very good condition from family members and want to get to know more about its calibre. I don't know what 8x60 Norm mean...
    I can't figure out if it's a J or a S

    If anyone can help me with all the other markings on the receiver, I'll be very thankfull...

    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]

    Regards!

    Hein Mostert
    (Tulbagh; South Africa)
     
  2. Varberger757

    Varberger757 Well-Known Member

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    Hei! What you own is a 8 x 60 S (.323 in !!) Mauser. Has nothing to do with Norma. The 8 x 60 S was created after the WWI as substitute for the 8 x 57 IS because of the Versailles peace - treaty. I hope I could help you!
     

  3. hmostert1

    hmostert1 Member

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    Thanx for the reply!

    The German military changed the callibre from .318 to .323 during and after 1905 . Many Germans beleived that the.318 was more accurate for hunting - and they kept on manufacturing this diameter barrel up to 1938... That is why these J-barrels is still to be found - even today...

    The Germans changed thousands of 8x57 chambers to 8x60 - after the First World War due to restrictions.

    The Norm is not Norma. I want to know what the meaning of it is.

    Hein
     
  4. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    "Norm" in german means "standard"
     
  5. Varberger757

    Varberger757 Well-Known Member

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    Hi again! It looks like as I made a little but crucial mistake. After your answer I was searching on relevant german websides and found also "ordinary" 8 x 60 and its flanged version 8 x 60 R. These conversions were also made after WWI! Versions in .318 diameter. So if you don't see any S- mark on the rifle then don't use normal .323 bullets.
    By the way, I or J stands for Infantry and S for "Spitz". Both were related to the military round 8 x 57 (Infanterie Spitz). The Germany army changed to the .323 diameter between 1904/1905. German primers on fab - ammo for the 8 x 57 IS are espescially dyed and highlighted to show the possible danger by using wrong cartridges in the .318...
    May be you understand some German because of Afrikaans, if so you may visit the following websides: Jagdwaffensammler.de or Wild und Hund Forum.

    Regards
     
  6. Varberger757

    Varberger757 Well-Known Member

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    Right, "Norm" describes a standard (Normal) whatever that means. We don't know what they considered standard, .318 or .323. Best and most secure will be a check, measuring of the chamber/ barrel by a good and skilled gunsmith. Then all doubts will be taken away. On German websides you still find reloading data tables to both 8 x 60 and 8 x 60 S. Even for their flanged versions.
     
  7. hmostert1

    hmostert1 Member

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    Thanx for the info guys!

    I'll take the gun to a smith - just to be sure.

    Regards!

    Hein
     
  8. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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  9. hmostert1

    hmostert1 Member

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    Hi!

    Yes. The old rifle is spotless - like the one on the auction.
    The only drawback is that the previous owner "tapped" the receiver for a base for a telescope... Very sad indeed...

    I'm not a collector - and want to hunt / shoot with the rifle. The problem is that the .318 8mm bullets very scarch (and expensive) is in South Africa. This make this rifle obsolete - for my purpose...

    Thanx again for the info!

    Hein
     
  10. hmostert1

    hmostert1 Member

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    :))

    At this stage I'm willing to sell this rifle for half that price:)
     
  11. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    Do they have laws against importing reloading components, specifically brass and bullets (not loaded ammo) ? Here in the US one can get good 8mm bullets for the same price as anything else. Good web sites are powdervalleyinc.com and grafs.com. Right now there is somewhat of an "ammo crisis" in the US, triggered by recent activity by the government and by some controversial ammo contracts by the local gestapo aka DHS. But I think you will find that you can get 8mm bullets for reloading.

    Grafs has brass for $0.46 each Graf & Sons - 8x60S

    and 8mm bullets Graf & Sons - 8mm (.323) quite a lot in stock.

    You might want to get a barrel slugging kit Meister Bullets Slug Your Barrel Kit 308-327 Cal Firearms

    That way you could determine with absolute certainty the bore and rifling dimensions. That kit is back ordered, but they show expected delivery on April 16 so not long to wait. If you are brave, you could do the same thing with a good release agent and Pratleys putty. Push it through the chamber and into the bore. Let it set, then tap it out with a hardwood dowel or a brass rod. Just make sure everything is spotless and you use a good release agent...
     
  12. Varberger757

    Varberger757 Well-Known Member

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    Hei Hein! The original Mauser in that cal. is a really nice bargain and worth hunting and shooting with it. Check out which diameter it has, .318 or .323 and than decide. You will surely get shipped bullets in .318 from Europe to a reasonable price. :) Sellier & Bellot still produces and maybe also Prvi Partisan.
     
  13. AC R

    AC R New Member

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    Hi to all,

    I happen to brows the internet and came across the Mauser Identification article.
    I happen to have the same rifle as described in the article with the same markings on the receiver. Looking at the persons username, hmostert1 I presume he is from South Africa. I am also from South Africa What is interesting to me is that your rifle serial number only differs by 30 from mine.
    My rifle however does not have the checkering on the front of the stock and also no recoil lug. On my rifle the cal is stated as 8x60 (318) The dia was determined by reputable gunsmith only yesterday here in Cape Town.

    If you are from South Africa we should talk.

    Best regards

    AC R
     
  14. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    Call Francois at Classic Arms in Witbank and see if he can help you. For plains game it's definitely more than capable. Check with Peregrine bullets as well and see if they make the .318.

    If neither of those solve your problem let me know. I send an occasional box of goodies to Francois and his buddies several times a year.:D