Mauser or Savage as a start? (first accurate rifle)

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by 777funk, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. 777funk

    777funk Member

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    I had a Mosin Nagant for a while and could get 2" groups at 100 yards with surp ammo, an ATI scope mount, and a cheap BSA 22LR scope shooting from a truck hood resting on a boat cushion. The one deer I shot with that gun went down without one step. This year I missed one with the Mosin at 175 yards or so and bad quality SP hunting ammo.

    I have moved on from that and it's time to build or buy something a little better. I'd like to either buy a Savage or Mauser and shoot it as is and build from there if I'm not satisfied. I don't mind working on my own stuff but I'm not a gun-smith either. It seems like with the right jig a scope mount can be drilled and tapped on the Mauser. I don't really plan on using irons on either but that could change if I can learn to shoot them safely/accurately for hunting at 200 yards. I still would prefer a scope. I don't like wounding anything.

    What is going to be the better route to go? Cost still counts on my budget.
     
  2. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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  3. 777funk

    777funk Member

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    I've seen old mausers selling at $300 and complete used Savage 11 or magnum series also selling at around the same price even with mounts and a scope (probably scopes not being worth much but you never know what you'll find).

    I'd like to buy once and have something I can build from should I need to. But I'd love to have something good and usable right away if it's going to be good quality. Ultimately I still want the best piece to work from. And I don't mind upgrading triggers, barrels, etc down the road.

    I don't know a ton about Mauser actions vs Savage actions. That's my biggest question mark at this point.
     
  4. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    If you are going to do it your self on most of what you can do the savage is probably the easest.

    The Remington 700 has more choices of accessories (Stocks,triggers ETC)by three to one

    Base price is close to the same. The Mauser's make great rifles but require more smithing to
    make them accurate and usable (Such as drilling the reciever for scope mounts).Also stocks
    are getting harder to find.

    The Savage is best for the do it yourself type because you can change barrels/calibers within
    limits yourself with a minimum of tools (Barrel wrench and Head space gauge).

    Hope this helps.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  5. 777funk

    777funk Member

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    That seems to be a lot of what I've read so far. Thanks for that! As far as quality of the receiver/bolt etc. am I better off with a Mauser than a Savage?

    The other thing that's muddying the water for me is that Mauser has a lot of variation from Mfg to Mfg and timeframe.
     
  6. BrentM

    BrentM Well-Known Member

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    I have been told the Weatherby Vanguard for around $400 is a great rifle. For shots in the 200 yard range you are not needing a LR rifle, but an accurate rifle none the less. I have a couple of savages and would definitely recommend the brand. They all shoot quite well. My 204 with factory ammo will shoot .15 groups every time I go out. My 6.5x284 shoots handloads but it is a sub .5 MOA rifle. Savage seems to offer a good rifle with some nice features such as the accutrigger and accustock. The trigger is generally nice enough that you don't need to install a jewel etc.
     
  7. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    I to like the price and quality of the Vanguard, but if you are a do it your self person be aware of
    the fact that the vanguard threads are Metric and most smiths dont have a lathe that will cut
    Metric threads. There is a way to do it but it is very labor intensive (Cost more).

    The vanguard is a great buy if you just want to buy and shoot but if you want to modify a rifle
    or build it yourself it would be one of my last choices/recommendations.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  8. BrentM

    BrentM Well-Known Member

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    Based on that go with a savage entry line rifle in the caliber you can get. Later on in life you can add a stock and a custom barrel quite easily to the savage if you so desire. I am pretty dang sure the savage would serve you well.

    Cabelas shows the 11 hunter xp for 439.00. Axis for 399. Trophy 111 for 549. They have the weather warrior on sale for 599 and the 116 trophy xp with scope for 599.
     
  9. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    A typical Mauser action (military) is weaker than most modern actions due to the steel quality alone. Ackley did a lot of testing on military actions, and he actually found that one of the Jap actions was much stronger than a Mauser. But on the otherhand a good Mark X. action would be a good action to use. (I you wanted to go the Mauser route)

    Things to think about:

    * just about any aftermarket item made for a Remington can also be had for the Savage from somebody out there.

    * you'll also incurr added costs from reworking the action with the Mauser alone

    * in the end you'll spend more money making a typical 98 Mauser shoot about as well as a Walmart Savage than if you bought a Long Range Varmit rifle from Savage

    * The mechanics of the Mauser leave a lot to be desired in the world of precision shooting. (lock time, bolt design, are a couple)

    * Building a Savage can be simple, or also incurr some extra spent money. Depends on how far up the scale one wants to go.

    * you can buy a Precision Target action from Savage in several different styles that also come with their target trigger (best factory trigger made other than an Anschutz). The Savage action typically will come in under .0015" without any work done to it, so your way ahead there (but not really). If you opt to have the Savage action retimed your gonna be out about the same money to true up a Remington anyway. It does make a difference by the way. The action with trigger sells for about $650, and that's not bad really for a right bolt left port (or dual port) solid topped reciever. Plus it's a three screw action!

    * barrels are barrels when they start out. You buy a blank and machine it, or buy a prefit. I prefer going the prefit route due to the engineering part alone. Krieger has been hinting around about doing prefits for a year now, and when they do the rest will have to follow or fall to the 5% that go the otherway.

    * used to be that only two or three shops sold replacement stocks for the Savage action. Those days are long gone. Now there are probably a dozen. You can buy any base you want for a Remington, and guess what you can buy the same base for a Savage (I prefer Farrell)

    * of course you could go the Remington 700 route, and there's nothing wrong with that one as well. You'll have to true up the action as they seem to be all over the map. Locktime is much better than the Mauser, but still a little slow. There are more triggers made for them, but in the end you'll still end up with a 2lb. trigger for use in the field or maybe a 8oz. for target work. Pacnor does sell prefit barrel for them with a nut, and for me that's a step into the modern world. The Remington action verses the standard 10 series savage is slightly stiffer, but when you go the single shot route they are about the same. But when you move into the solid topped recievers they fall behind. The Remington bolt design makes their bolt alignment critical verses the floating head savage uses that aligns the bolt face to the case head.

    * But! You could simply order in a Savage Precision Target Rifle for $1700. Comes with a H S Precision stock and the large barrel shank. The action is solid topped and can be had in a dual port or right bolt left port. Has a center bedding screw that really changes things. The one example I looked over had a 10oz. trigger(checked with a digital trigger pull gauge) with little if any creep from the factory. Barrel is athirty inch 1" diameter strait contour that can be had in many calibers (the one I looked over was in 6BR). It came with a proof target using factory Federal ammo that was about .150" three shot group. The downside is that the rifle is a little heavy, but also nice for setting over a dog town. These rifles are so good that they and the LRPV rifles are banned at a lot of long range factory class shoots! Gotta keep the good old boys happy I guess
    gary
     
  10. D.ID

    D.ID Well-Known Member

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    All the rifles mentioned except the savage, The mauser, remington or vangaurd will all require a gunsmith at some point to significantly upgrade. Extra man hours from someone other than yourself is money and time spent. Not necessarily a bad thing but usually is for me. Savage tools to change a barrel are cheap, with a savage the trigger, bolt face, bolt handle and about anything els there is on a rifle can be changed yourself with an allen wrench set and screwdriver. The savage will have the better factory barrel over the rem or mauser and presumably the vangaurd also but I can't attest to that personally. The modern savage will shoot with the best of em and can be upgraded so easy it's criminal. After market stuff for the savages (including drop in barrels) are getting great support from all over the industry. I am not a gunsmith but have some 1/4" rifles that have never sean a gunsmith since leaving the factory. If you want any part of the "hands on" upgrades to a rifle, the savage is the way to go. If you just want to polish and shoot it and do not mind waiting on and paying a smith to do any upgrades then there are bunch of nice options, All the ones mentioned and the tikka as well.
     
  11. lloydsmale

    lloydsmale Well-Known Member

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    model 700 hands down.
     
  12. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    you'll put $2K in it to make it shoot almost as good as the Savage P.T. rifle out of the box. Your dollars and sense better off going with a custom action from the start, or buy the Savage. The P.T. rifle is 3.2 times more ridgid than a standart Savage action. Has a better lock time. Better bolt to case alignment. Better barrel, and better barrelmounting design. Much more robust bedding system. That's why they rule the factory benchrest classes these days.
    gary
     
  13. 777funk

    777funk Member

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    What is the Savage P. T. Not sure what those stand for?
    thanks
     
  14. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    was too lazy to write Precision Target Rifle. They come out of the custom shop are are virtually all hand built to order. They come in right bolt left port, dual port, or right bolt right port. All are single shot rifles. Each one comes with a proof target using off the shelf factory Federal ammunition. The one I looked at had a shot spread of about 5/32" in a 6BR. The one Bob Greanleaf looked over was a little bit better as it had a .110" spread in a 22-250
    gary