MATCHKING FAILURE!

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by Ian M, Nov 1, 2005.

  1. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

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    Well guys, just back from a quick little hunting hunting trip, shooting in a CWD cull area. Shots ranged from under two hundred to slightly over 700 yards. Most shots were over 400 yards, which made for interesting shooting. No wounding, no loss, just 14 dead deer.

    Now getting back to the title. I must confess that our Sierra Matchkings, shot in my 6.5-284 (142's) and in the mighty .308 WIn. (175's) completelty failed to BLOW UP, plus they absolutely failed to PENCIL STRAIGHT THROUGH the critter /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif This is very contrary to the what the doom and gloomers post.

    My goodness, what went wrong! One of my 6.5-284 shots was at 605 yards, hit through the heart, broke off-side leg, deer dropped like a spine-shot. What could be going wrong - that deer should have walked off and died a lingering death, or it should have had the on-side ribs blown clear of skin - just did not happen. Did we get Matchkings from a bad production lot? These bullets just don't wound like the experts who have never shot any deer claim. Hell, at this rate we will never get a two thousand (?) page thread like happened on some other site a while back.

    The 175's made 3-4 inch exits on the closer shots and one inch exits on the two longer kills - 696 and 705 yards. My 6.5 Matchkings did two or three inch holes for exits. Now the interesting thing was that there was massive damage to the lungs and other organs - the deer dropped in their tracks, except for one that ran about 50 yards with his lungs shredded and the off-side leg smashed by a bullet that entered the ribs high and exited through the upper offside leg.

    Same can be said about the deer shot with 168 A-MAX on this trip - deadly performance at different ranges. Not sure of distances as we had two trucks, two hunters per truck and covered a lot of ground. Deer were spooky, that did not hamper our shooting, we were ready for long shots.

    Highlight for me was spotting for our landowner host who killed two bedded fawns at 696 and 705 yards with his .308 Stealth, Nikon Tactical and Matchkings. Did everything like a pro - first shot killed the bedded fawn stone dead, no movement. Second deer got up and looked at the dead one, then turned and gave a broadside shot at 705. First shot center of lungs, deer lurched ahead and took several steps, getting very sick. Told shooter to shoot again since he was on his feet - second shot also a good hit. Deer down and dead. I called no wind at deer but slight right-left at 10.00 o'clock at our position. Told him to put on 1.5 moa right wind, was good call.

    Fourteen samples for the gov't in 1 1/2 days. Fair number of deer in cull area we hunted, nice shooting conditions, great guys to do the long stuff with.
    BUT, the Matchkings failed to let us down! We must be doing something wrong - all those one-shot Matchking kills!
    Ever see forteen dead deer in the back of a Chevy 4x4 - lots of meat for hungry folk.
     
  2. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    Ian M,
    I have never seen that many deer in the back of a truck, this is why it's very importante to see some pictures!!!!
    Congratulations, seems like you had a good time. Glad for you!
    Don't forget those pictures... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     

  3. TheCanuck

    TheCanuck Well-Known Member

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    does it look anything like this? but with more of em?


    [​IMG]
     
  4. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Ian, another testimonial to be dismissed by the vast majority of hunters.

    On the deer that ran the short ~50 yards... you mentioned it had been struck on the off-side leg bone. We're any other deer struck in the support skeleton and if so did they move also?? I've come to believe that breaking support bone(s) will generally cause the deer/critter to move from the site of impact. My theory is that they experience some level of pain from the fracture and move to put a little distance between them and the source/cause of this pain/discomfort. The problem for them is that in the case of broken support structure the pain/discomfort follows them with every step forcing them to continue to move (or perhaps after a short distance accept that the source is internal if it's an older/smarter critter).

    Any ideas on this conjecture from your experience(s)?
     
  5. keithcandler

    keithcandler Well-Known Member

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    My results with 7Mag and 150g Match kings Mixed.....

    velocity was 3150 out of a factory 700 with extreme accuracy. First 4 deer that I shot with them were at ranges of 100-225 yards, dropped right in their tracks with no running. The next couple that I shot had surface explosions where the bullet blew up on a rib and on the shoulder at impact velocities were around 3000 fps. I loaded the same load in my dad's and brother's 7 Mags, and they too had similar experiences, most of the deer drop right in their tracks with some surface explosion when bone was hit. Our conclusion was that in a 7 Mag, the 150 MK's at high velocity and at close range, if bone were hit, the bullet may or may not come apart, which is not hard to understand due to high impact velocity. I may have got fantastic results from the 7mm 168g match kings vs the 150g match king.

    I too have used the 308 with 168g Match kings with fantastic results on mule deer and whitetail, no surprises, just dead deer, ranges from 125-350 yards. Obvious results of shooting the Match king slower.

    I made my own bullets for shooting benchrest for 8 years and one of the annoying things that I learned was that Alloy used in Rolls of lead wire from the foundry along with bullet jacket alloy hardness/thickness vary from lot to lot. These variances could explain some of the variations in experiences with people's experiences using match kings. I do think that there are velocity (rpm) zones in which bullets perform better...it is all speculation based on my limited experience. Your deer kill certainly says that the heavy Match kings for that caliber at that particular impact velocity work and work well. How can anyone argue with your results?

    I have a gunsmith friend in Alabama that builds a wild cat based on an 6.5 Ackley Improved version of a 257 Weatherby.
    He is shooting the 120g Match kings at 3600-3700 fps and has reported his customers having 80+ one shot kills with no bullet blow ups! He is an excellent gunsmith and not a BS artist.


    I prepare my rifes to be shot at yardages out to 600 yards which is about the limit here in the South. We are allowed to hunt deer during the rut here, and ranges can be from 25 yards to extreme ranges, you just never know where a buck is going to show up at when he is chasing does.

    It is very hard for any bullet maker to make a bullet that will work at all ranges. In the end, you just have to try a particular combo and see how it works for you. It would have been interesting to see you several deer shot at 50-100 yards for a comparrison, which is where I think that the Match kings get most of their bad reputation. I do expect that the 308 with the 175g Match kings would have performed beautifully at 50 yards, slow big bullet. I wonder if you had shot the same bullet out of a 300 Ultra mag with an impact velocity of 3000 fps, what the results would have been? A 175g bullet at 3000 fps impact velocities would have still done the job I would certainly think.

    Congrats on your fantastic hunt and great shooting! You certainly proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that the heavy match kings work at longer ranges in a 308 and 6.5/284.



    By the way, we NEVER had any Match Kings pencil through the deer.

    Your shooting experiences with the Match kings at longer distances are a completely differnt can of worms compared to the short range shooting that I and my family was doing with the 7mm 150g Matchkings. Here in the South, we shoot power lines, Shots range from 50 yards to 600yards.



    I realize that this is a longrange hunting site, but thought it important to relate my hunting experiences with the 7mm Mag 150g match king just in case someone had a very expensive deer hunt booked, planning on using this combo because they are shaking the dice on loosing an animal.
     
  6. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    Ian

    Would you take a few minutes and explain WHY you were shooting these deer. Are there too many deer? Are these deer from an area with CWD and shooting them is a cheap way to get samples for the lab? Are they shot because you believe they have CWD?
     
  7. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

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    Dave,
    I believe you have something there. I had two chest shots that broke off legs, in fact both animals stayed up for longer than the others that took chest shots and did not get a leg hit. The 175's were blowing through shoulders and dumping deer on the spot - very good exits.

    When my farmer buddy was setting up to take the first shot at the bedded deer at 696 yards we went through the dialogue and when I said to Send It I focused really hard on the immediate area around the critter in case the wind call was off a bit, bullet hit high or whatever. At the shot nothing happened, head dropped very quickly and body absolutely still. Nice feeling when it comes together that clean. Same with second buck, first shot was a perfect chest shot, deer reacted with a quick lunge forward in the way he was facing, several steps and started to get very wobbly. He was barely able to stay up but I told my partner to hit him again, as bullet hit him he dropped stone dead - no kicking. Double hits to the lungs will do that, even at 705 yards.

    I believe Keith is also correct, there may be some Matchkings to avoid, some shot placement that does not work as well as others. Only one way to find that out, and this is the place to share such info.

    I am pleased with the killing power of the 6.5-284, the factory BHA ammo got the job done very well. I used a Nightforce PDA on this hunt. Considering that I am computer brain-dead I am really getting into this unit as a hunting tool. Started to call it my "Little Buddy", damn thing had good answers to our trajectory questions. We were shooting a variety of rifles, it did gave accurate drops - that is what I need in the field. Besides it is a great time waster - I lost about 50 consecutive games of Solitare on the drive home...
     
  8. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

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    Bob,
    I believe that this CWD collection is our government agency's way to reduce an significantly over-populated area that CWD got into. Very high deer densities a few years back - story is that CWD came in courtesy of a game farm, same old story. We go through a set procedure, GPS kill site, give required info to DNR, meat is consumed when tested or OK'd. Big puzzle this year, they are not testing fawns? Are we to assume meat is OK, the same folks we always give it to are using it this year, they are not worried.
    I take advantage of this situation to do some neat testing.
     
  9. bailey1474

    bailey1474 <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

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    Now I see why Willard calls you "Poacher!!!!"
     
  10. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

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    That was nuthin, in the good old days we would put 20+ deer into a truck in four hours - then straight to an autopsy lab. Shooting from choppers is more better... 9 deer in about nine seconds was one of my personal bests /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
     
  11. keithcandler

    keithcandler Well-Known Member

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    Ian, I think that you have one of the very best ways to test real life bullet/cartridge performances, and we are lucky that you share your experiences with us...thanks!
     
  12. sewwhat89

    sewwhat89 Well-Known Member

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    Ian, when you decide to retire . . . call me first!

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  13. Ankeny

    Ankeny Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    No wounding, no loss...

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Anybody miss?
     
  14. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

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    They tell me I am retired. I am fortunate to have great opportunities to shoot and hunt. I have even convinced some people it is work (not my wife tho...). Writing the articles is a real challenge, I would usually rather be out shooting. Matter of fact I usually am out shooting instead of writing - how else can I get these neat experiences to work into the writing.

    This site is a great place to take a break from the day - we owe Len a bunch for that! Now Dave King is another story - I am convinced that anyone who can talk his wife into going on an elk hunt should be in international politics! But he is a trigger-puller,, he knows a lot of neat stuff and he keeps gunsmiths occupied.

    Great guys here, that's the bottom line.