match bullets for deer

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by ven, May 27, 2007.

  1. ven

    ven Well-Known Member

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    recentley got hold of some match 68 grain bergers to try in my 6mmppc .loaded up some rounds with 29.0 grains of n133 .3 shot groups were well under 0.25 of an inch at 100 yards with 5 shot groups about .250 to .300. shot some groups at 300 and all went in under an inch with a half incher a personal best for me so was delighted with acuracy.
    wanted to use this load for hunting as the accuracy was so good over long range {300 to 400 is long range for me}.
    had heard of people shooting deer with match bullets in 308 with success so thought with perfect shot placemnt they would be fine for our little roe deer.
    went out to a favorite spot this morning and spied the ground for deer seen about 12 mostly does then spotted a very nice 6 point buck grazing in the sun about 500 yuards away a short stalk got me to a good vantage point exaxtly 300 yards away from the feeding buck.he was standinge perfectley broardside clicked up the leoupould 14 clicks there was no wind so just settled the cross hairs behind his shoulder and sqeezed off the round.
    there was no sound of impact and the buck showed no reaction of being hit he turned and ran 70 yards and im thinkin no way have i missed but was starting to wonder when he stopped and just stood there i could see a small exit hole right where his lungs are.then he dropped job done i thought.
    when i go near him i could see to my horror he was not yet dead he had his head up and was looking around but was in tall grass so could no longer get a clear shot decided to wait a minute in case i scard him away then his head went down.
    when i got up to him he was lying on his side but still breathing i could see the shot a perfect lung shot frothy blood was bubbling out of the exit hole but to my dissmay he was still breathing.was just reaching for my knife to cut his neck when to my amazment he jamp up and ran 50 yards then stopped looked at me and sat back down .had the rifle up by this time and was just about to shoot him when his head went own for good. waited 5 nins just in case got up to him no signs of life touched his eye to make sure.
    gralloched him and headed home quite up set with the experience .got home cleaned him out the shot was a perfet double luung shot causing a neat exit and fairly substantial damge to the far off lung.
    sorry to go on but was purely amazed by this seen hundreds apon hundreds of deer shot in the lungs and have never seen one live for more than a minute and a half.
    have any of you guys had a simmilar experience to this with match bullets or any for that matter.aur roe deer only way 45 odd pounds will get the camere going and post some pics.
     
  2. lorvan

    lorvan Well-Known Member

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    There are match bullets and match bullets. Not all are the same.
    A match bullets make an hole. And if the bullet remain stable the hole is only a little bit bigger than the bullet diameter and is a very small hole.
    A match bullet is good for hunting if it trumble after it is in the body. I use for long range hunting with a .30 caliber always 168 sierra Match King . They are more accurate for long shooting tnan my loved nosler ballistic tip and always trumble so the exit hole is large.
    Here we hunt deer like your withe tail ( ours caprioli) or muledeer ( ours daini ). When is possible I shoot on the scapula, but when they are shooted in the lungs they run for fifty - seventy meters and go down. You wait five minutes and... is done.
    ( the same was with the old bullets in 303 british that were used for years for hunting in Africa..)

    Lorenzo
     

  3. Freakshow

    Freakshow Active Member

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    I read your post twice and thought maybe I missed something. Now I have a question for you, if the deer is dead and the bullet did substantial damage,as you put it, where is the problem? The bullet did a good job and you put it where it needed to be put. Try this experiment, for scientific reasons of course, go out tomorrow and shoot that herd of doe and then judge the bullet's performance. Can I get an "AMEN"?
     
  4. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    As far as it taking so long to expire, as Forrest Gump said,"It happens"..........[​IMG]
     
  5. davkrat

    davkrat Well-Known Member

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    Bravo,
    The problem is that the animal obviously suffered! How do you think it would feel to sit with a hole in your lungs gurgling blood with every breath. I too would be sick with myself if I found that I had wounded an animal that way to have it slowly die. I feel bad for the poster but thank God he at least has some compassion!

    This is very similar to the recent post about the huge hog that took numerous shots over a span of 3 hours!! That is disgusting. People that don't feel at all for the animal's suffering do nothing but fuel the anti's that are trying to end our great sport. To have people boasting about torturing an animal like that hog is disgusting. Now a compassionate hunter feels bad because the bullet he used was "MARGINAL" at best for killing deer and you flame him for it. Every animal, even a disgusting pig, deserves a quick and painless death.

    To the original poster on Berger's website they break there bullets down as

    Target: short range - Long range
    Hunting: Varmint - Big Game

    The only 6mm Big Game rated bullets in 6mm are 95gr, 105gr, and 115gr VLD. All of these are listed as Match bullets by Berger. I assume they have done some testing or know the construction of their bullets that will lead to suitable big game bullets. I would suggest you try one of the heavier VLD hunting bullets.
     
  6. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    I don't buy the suffering thing.. Animals deal with pain differently than Humans do..
    Have you ever been shot? If not how would you know how it feels?
    Yes I have been shot and with a 357 mag and it was very numb and it took a while for me to realize what happened as far as suffering I would not classify myself as suffering when I was shot...... These things happen and if one has no stomach far it then don't do it.......
     
  7. lorvan

    lorvan Well-Known Member

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    You are right, but I think that you are a little bit too sensitive for to be a good hunter.
    I have shooted tree time with a 7 rem. mag ( 300 meters ) a kudu that do not would fall down in south africa last week.. Afther the third shot ( two in the chest and one in the abdomen ) I seated down waiting with a cigarette.
    It was not a pleasure, but the hunt is this.
    If you are not able to do this is better if instead of huntig you spend your time caressing your cat..
    I think...
     
  8. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]

    Target: short range - Long range
    Hunting: Varmint - Big Game

    The only 6mm Big Game rated bullets in 6mm are 95gr, 105gr, and 115gr VLD. All of these are listed as Match bullets by Berger. I assume they have done some testing or know the construction of their bullets that will lead to suitable big game bullets. I would suggest you try one of the heavier VLD hunting bullets.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Berger only recomended thier bullets for target shooting until Longe Range Hunters started useing them and then Berger decided to apeal to a larger base of perspective buyers and then began to recomend them for hunting. The Roe Deer is no larger than a medium sized dog and the bullet exited thus was certainly large enogh........[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  9. johnnyk

    johnnyk Well-Known Member

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    Think jwp475 may be right on this one (about Berger). Hunters used to be critized and discouraged from using match and target bullets on game. I was suprised at the first ad I saw from Berger advocating the use of their bullets on game. I thought to myself "hum, they must be making hunting bullets now". Well they are, but the part #'s for the LR target bullets are the same for the big game bullets.
    On a personal note: I would have no quam with taking deer sized game with the 115gn .257 match VLD bullet in my .25-06 Rem. Each animal is different and will react differently when shot. Some run, some don't, especially when the central nervous system "parts" aren't directly contacted.
    The kill described in the first post is typical, I think, of not enough energy on game. I shot a wild dog once with a .22 LR at about 75 yds. The bullet penetrated both lungs and he ran about 40 yds and died approx. 15 minutes later. These things happen when you're out trying to KILL animals. JohnnyK.
     
  10. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    Here is a picture of an exit in the offside rib cage of a bull Elk made from a 500 JRH 440 grain at a muzzle Velocity of 905 fps and less than 900 FPE

    [​IMG]

    Here is an exit of a 180 grain fired from a 300 Winn with an impact velocity of approx. 2600 fps fpr 2700 FPE

    [​IMG]

    As can clearly be asscertained from these pictures there is more to it than FPE. We do not know if the lungs were centered or perferated at the edges all of which will have a bearing on time of experation... These things simply happen when hunting and if one is worried about how the animal feels about being killed then don't do it....[​IMG]
     
  11. ROCKETSAM

    ROCKETSAM Member

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    Does anyone have any experience using Hornady A-Max on deer sized animals?
     
  12. edge

    edge Well-Known Member

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    I could be sour at your reply, but why would you not put another shot to the neck and end the animals agony?
    For the record, some of us do care for the animals that we harvest, and will often NOT take a shot if the results are marginal.
    I suppose that I could shoot every animal that I want, even if it is not a great killing shot...perhaps just shoot in the guts and wait 4-6 hours and go collect my trophy.....nah, I will continue to take the high percentage shots that put an animal down fast, and should I screw up, I'll continue to take the best shots that are offered until the game is in bag.

    edge.
     
  13. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Does anyone have any experience using Hornady A-Max on deer sized animals?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    IanM one of the Moderators here has used them on Deer and written articles about thier use on Deer.....He reported dead Deer...........[​IMG]
     
  14. Mule

    Mule Well-Known Member

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    Ok, keep the "Humanity" out of it.

    If a shot is purely a lung shot with no collateral damage from bone chips or arterial damage, then the mode of death is asphyxiation. The hunter is waiting for the "sucking chest wound" to render the diaphram useless for inflating the lungs with air (collapsed lungs) and then lack of oxygen takes over and the animal "falls asleep".

    I shot a large cow elk last year with a 7 mag 140 gr bullet at 120 yds. She took the hit with no sign of moving or anyhing. We drilled holes in each other for about 3 minutes (yes, I checked my watch) seeing who would move first after the shot. Finally, she started to go wobbly and fell over.

    The 7mm had entered cleanly, no ribs, and fully mushroomed and was in the hide on the opposite side. Only lungs and nothing else was hit.

    Good shot, good bullet performance, and death by "falling asleep"

    If it bothers you that a lung shot may not have worked as "fast" then do like the bowhunters and wait 30 min, drink some water, have a snack, smoke a stick and the animal will still be "dead"

    Mule