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Chatting and General Stuff
Politics Of Hunting & Guns (NOT General Politics)
Mass Shootings - Why?
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<blockquote data-quote="JimFromTN" data-source="post: 2546431" data-attributes="member: 113268"><p>First, George Washington never said 'Religion and morality are indispensable supports' for 'it is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.'"</p><p></p><p>In his farewell address he said "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."</p><p></p><p>Some of the founding fathers were deists while others were a mixture of christianity and deism while the rest were different flavors of christianity. Even when it comes to christianity there are issues with saying we are a christian nation because there are so many different forms of christianity as you pointed out with the issue that caused the first use of the phrase. Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Madison and Monroe were considered deists as was Franklin<strong>.</strong> I think it has been argued that some were a christian with a smattering of deism. The principle behind deism is that you believe in a supreme being or creator who does not intervene in the universe. They reject the belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind. So when Washington talks about religion, it does not matter if it is christianity, judaism, islam, deism, or any other religion as long as it promotes morality and a creator. Christians are not the only ones who fall into this category.</p><p></p><p>When people misuse the term separation of church and state, its because they interpret it to be freedom from religion when its freedom of religion.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JimFromTN, post: 2546431, member: 113268"] First, George Washington never said 'Religion and morality are indispensable supports' for 'it is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.'" In his farewell address he said "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle." Some of the founding fathers were deists while others were a mixture of christianity and deism while the rest were different flavors of christianity. Even when it comes to christianity there are issues with saying we are a christian nation because there are so many different forms of christianity as you pointed out with the issue that caused the first use of the phrase. Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Madison and Monroe were considered deists as was Franklin[B].[/B] I think it has been argued that some were a christian with a smattering of deism. The principle behind deism is that you believe in a supreme being or creator who does not intervene in the universe. They reject the belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind. So when Washington talks about religion, it does not matter if it is christianity, judaism, islam, deism, or any other religion as long as it promotes morality and a creator. Christians are not the only ones who fall into this category. When people misuse the term separation of church and state, its because they interpret it to be freedom from religion when its freedom of religion. [/QUOTE]
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