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<blockquote data-quote="Trickymissfit" data-source="post: 978487" data-attributes="member: 25383"><p>this is what I've found when buying steel. Europe was famous years back for stainless steels and select heat treating processes due to the heavy use of coal. Over the last fifteen years (maybe twenty five years) their quality has plunged. We saw this with the Sako blow ups. But folks that bought steels already knew this the hard way. Their CRS steels came in about 20% to 30% cheaper, but you ended up scrapping 33% of the lot you bought due to delamination issues alone. I well remember calling in a single source supplier (some will know the name as it starts with the letter "A"), and showing him what he sent us. Now we're looking at about 30,000lb. of steel, and I made him take it back. That steel came out of Austria and Norway. They sent in another truck load, and it was only slightly better as it wasn't strait, or slightly close to size. That came out of Korea. Why CRS? You use it a lot in welded construction as it saves machine time. I often found myself crawling thru stacks of hot rolled plate looking for something to replace what we'd bought. Finally the boss and I called a meeting with the supplier(s), and told them what we had to have. If they couldn't supply it, then we'd find somebody that would.</p><p> </p><p>Prototype parts for a new product line usually are sourced from domestic mills as a certified lot. This is deemed critical, and before it can be off loaded the paper work must be handed over. Then when that part goes into production the steel is purchased via a different group. More often than you think, the raw material was deemed junk. You really see this in bar feed cutting systems, and somebody said they had tons and tons of bad steel laying around. Timken ended up be the new source at about 33% more money. Time saved was well over 40%, they ended up actually saving money in the end. Before the machine operator spent a huge amount of time sorting stock for straightness alone. A crooked piece of steel won't feed thru a collet that only expands sixty thousandths. Plus you can buy bar steel with less extra stock to machine off it, and this really saves money. I might add that the Timken steels heat treat better, and are way out front when machining involute spines. </p><p> </p><p>One place that is extremely critical is forgings. I've seen them done from all over the place, and they always come back to the Midwest in the end. I've seen more than one person loose their job over a cost saving move. You get what you pay for!</p><p> </p><p>Now we've watched the Asians pretty take over the machine tool markets, and once again you got what you paid for. Most are junk before they take them off the shipping pallet. Some are pretty good (mostly gear grinders), but still no better than the competition. The machine centers and lathes simply suck! Once again, I've seen more than one process engineer clean out his desk of buying this junk.</p><p>gary</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Trickymissfit, post: 978487, member: 25383"] this is what I've found when buying steel. Europe was famous years back for stainless steels and select heat treating processes due to the heavy use of coal. Over the last fifteen years (maybe twenty five years) their quality has plunged. We saw this with the Sako blow ups. But folks that bought steels already knew this the hard way. Their CRS steels came in about 20% to 30% cheaper, but you ended up scrapping 33% of the lot you bought due to delamination issues alone. I well remember calling in a single source supplier (some will know the name as it starts with the letter "A"), and showing him what he sent us. Now we're looking at about 30,000lb. of steel, and I made him take it back. That steel came out of Austria and Norway. They sent in another truck load, and it was only slightly better as it wasn't strait, or slightly close to size. That came out of Korea. Why CRS? You use it a lot in welded construction as it saves machine time. I often found myself crawling thru stacks of hot rolled plate looking for something to replace what we'd bought. Finally the boss and I called a meeting with the supplier(s), and told them what we had to have. If they couldn't supply it, then we'd find somebody that would. Prototype parts for a new product line usually are sourced from domestic mills as a certified lot. This is deemed critical, and before it can be off loaded the paper work must be handed over. Then when that part goes into production the steel is purchased via a different group. More often than you think, the raw material was deemed junk. You really see this in bar feed cutting systems, and somebody said they had tons and tons of bad steel laying around. Timken ended up be the new source at about 33% more money. Time saved was well over 40%, they ended up actually saving money in the end. Before the machine operator spent a huge amount of time sorting stock for straightness alone. A crooked piece of steel won't feed thru a collet that only expands sixty thousandths. Plus you can buy bar steel with less extra stock to machine off it, and this really saves money. I might add that the Timken steels heat treat better, and are way out front when machining involute spines. One place that is extremely critical is forgings. I've seen them done from all over the place, and they always come back to the Midwest in the end. I've seen more than one person loose their job over a cost saving move. You get what you pay for! Now we've watched the Asians pretty take over the machine tool markets, and once again you got what you paid for. Most are junk before they take them off the shipping pallet. Some are pretty good (mostly gear grinders), but still no better than the competition. The machine centers and lathes simply suck! Once again, I've seen more than one process engineer clean out his desk of buying this junk. gary [/QUOTE]
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