LUCKY.....GROUP......CLUB ( BI - PODS - ..ONLY )

We used to all get along.What happened,What's changed??????
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Dave

I am sorry if I offended you, I generally do not attack unless someone proactively takes a shot at me. These 3 gentlemen are obviouly not used to someone not agreeing with them, and they try and get personal because they have no where else to go. I think the vast majority of the posts I have put up relay info that directly addresses a specific question, or relays some info or experience that probably applies to the subject at least in a small way. I have enormous respect for the average hunter, and believe they can do anything I can do, and some I hope will do it better than I ever could. This is a natural progression. I am tired of negative comments, and mouthy skeptics, who won't even try a suggestion for themselves, and refuse to offer any real world evidence of their own.

I will forward Boyd's email to you, and you will see how he thinks the average guy is too stupid to learn how to read the wind. We won World War II with a bunch of "average guys" doing above average things.

Look at where this thread was going, and then where the 3 mousekateers took it, enough said.

You may be "over sharing" with all that lace stuff.......
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[ 01-12-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
 
S1

Thanks for your thoughts and remarks and I've not personally been offended by your posts.

About those lacy panties though... in the early years of the Polaris "41 For Freedom" submarines, someone thought it would be a good idea to issue silken underware to the submariners to keep lint to a minimum... Not a good idea to have a bunch of late teen and early 20 year old men walking around in soft silken underware (under our poopie-suits of course), nearly like priapism!

Back on track (sort of) with this tread's intent.

I don't have any long range 3/8th MOA groups handy (I rarely shoot groups) but I do have some picture of groups that I shot on a Long Range Hunter's Challenge Postal Shoot. The intent was to shoot 3 shots at hunting distances using the hunter's field conditions and methods... I'll post a few picts here and the group size.

223 Rem distance 150 yards, group .5 MOA. Distance of center of group from center of target (POA to POI disparity) .96MOA

DaveKing_223_150-30-3x_1_TN.jpg


223 Rem distance 225 yards, group .78 MOA.
POA to POI disparity .35 MOA

DaveKing_223_225-30-3X_1_tn.jpg



223 Rem distance 300 yards, group .62 MOA.
POA to POI disparity 1.2 MOA (switching 3o'clock to 6 o'clock wind)

DaveKing_223_300-29_1_tn.jpg



308 Win distance 325 yards, group .96 MOA.
POA to POI disparity .72 MOA

308_325-30-1x_1_small.jpg


308 Win distance 540 yards, group .46 MOA.
POA to POI disparity .57 MOA

308_540-30_1_small.jpg



308 Win sitance 650 yards, group .92 MOA.
POA to POI disparity 1.2 MOA (not too good but we're trying)
http://www.the-king-family.com/UserPages/DaveKing/images/308_650-19_1_small.jpg

338 RUM distance 325 yards, group 1.0 MOA.
POA to POI disparity .44 MOA

338Rum_325-30-1_1_small.jpg


338 RUM distance 540 yards, group .62 MOA.
POA to POI disparity 1.02 MOA

338Rum_540-26_1_small.jpg


338 RUM distance 650 yards, group 1.2 MOA
POA to POI disparity .70 MOA.
http://www.the-king-family.com/UserPages/DaveKing/images/338Rum_650-25_1_small.jpg


These groups were all shot without any spotting rounds, test groups or anything of the like, it was a challenge to see if a hunter can make first round hits at their own personal limit. Also, these were shot without a spotter (I didn't bring anyone along to act as spotter) and no elevation or windage correction after the first round was fired (I couldn't see the hits to make any correction(s)).

I have shot some remarkable small groups off a bipod, well below 3/8th MOA but none are available at longer ranges.

[ 01-12-2003: Message edited by: Dave King ]

only 6 pictures per post so I didn't show the bad groups
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[ 01-12-2003: Message edited by: Dave King ]
 
S1,Like I said in my e-mail to you.Most on this forum are new to this sport.What you do take's year's of practice to master.....The spotter method is a much better way for new shooter's to learn the sport.And become successful..As for the bully part of your post...There is only room for one on this forum....You pretty much have that covered.....It's a shame
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More negative bull.

And still no acknowledgment that many shooters do not define "THE SPORT" in the way you want them to. Why don't you post something useful, on subject, I can think of at least one hole, but you have already shown us that.

I would prefer to let each shooter define his OWN way of long range hunting, based on the type of game, the terrain, and the skills each individual hunter wants to develop for HIMSELF.

DAVE nice shootin! This is the kind of info people need to see!
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[ 01-12-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
 
I for one don't use the sighter shot method for LRH, the terrain doesn't offer much feedback on shots so it just can't be counted on is all. The terrain swallows up shots so they can't be seen, swamps, heavy mountain brush etc. Some may use this method but many will find as I have, the info reguarding, or that can be used in first shot hits more usefull overall. That said, ANY info could potentially be used by someone here for LRH, so keep it coming!
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Tactical info draws many paralells, these men are after first shot kills too... Many things they find usefull, the first shot kill LRH will also. I would like to learn more from Dave King and S1 and other top guys in the field that have been trained in some things I haven't, which is ALOT. For some to diss S1 or anyone else isn't helping, please take a step back and just take the good and leave the bad if you find it. Like my father used to tell me when I'd get all bentup over something... Just nevermind it, lets move on.
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Much information and many experiences have been being exchanged lately, I hope it continues free of resistance. There are two distinct methods of LR hunting I've noticed so far, and those are one shot killers and spotter shot first killers. Both either click to the target, hold over by some means or use max point blank range type setups. Some use bipods, rice bags, rests or tripods. THERE IS ROOM FOR EACH METHOD, SIGHTING TECHNIQUE, AND REST TYPE USED HERE! ALL have their advantages and disadvantages. If you do not agree with this and cannot let the person travel the road they wish to travel and help them along the way after it's obvious they know the options commonly used... YOU have THE problem and are just being a pain in their ***, something most could do without.

I speak to nobody inparticular, just that we all be AWARE of it!
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Back to the subject.

I could post some good groups, but none were under .3 moa for 5 groups or more consistantly so I won't. Some were close, but none of my guns are just that accurate cosistantly... even from bags.
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I'm working on it though.
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Keep raising the bar, the challenge is welcomed!
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Si,I hope to someday see your wind reading skill's in a true hunting situtation.I have many spot's where shot's over 1000 yard's are the norm.Here is a pic of one of the spot's I hunt.
fcc9f470.jpg
There is a big rock at 9oclock on the first hill that is 700 yard's away.It is 1250 to the fire road on the far hill.The wind where you are at is blowing in your face at 15mph.You can't move from that spot.At 3oclock AT the very edge of the picture.Is a small black dot.A rock.Under that rock is a monster 8 point.Distance is 1060 yard's.How would you go about shooting the buck....I'm not being an *** here.I would really like to know...

[ 01-12-2003: Message edited by: Boyd Heaton ]

[ 01-12-2003: Message edited by: Boyd Heaton ]
 
My-oh-my, how have things developed.
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So this is what happens to grown men who have been away from their firearms for too damned long {thought it was just me, at first--thanks, fellas`, for making me feel more normal.
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} Oh, And Daryl, buddy...you think you're dangerous?--I haven't been laid in almost two years, and I'm 23; looks like the situation HAS turned mighty tactical in a hurry [uh, S1, you've had some military experience, obviously--any suggestions on how to avoid being..."flanked"?]

OK, on task. First, thanks S1 for the info on the principles of the brake <not break--my spelling has been poor lately, like my accounts>. It was much appreciated, and I thoroughly enjoy being made aware of new advances in the field of shooting.

Dave, spicy dress outfits, for sure; and you're right, those suckers DO get caught on everything, don't they? I tried making MY own homemade version for a winter outfit [I've always found it hard to find GOOD winter camo]. I tried nylon cut-outs, but...they can be extremely noisy in the wrong situation, so I've since then tried cotton fabrics, and cedar/grass ends with some super glue; works good, they don't brown for quite some time [the cedar], but they don't exactly FLAP in the wind, either.
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Oh well, I hate making noise, and I hate wind even more.

Anyhow, I think this topic was started about bi-pod shooting?... Is that...accurate? 50 posts later, and I'd say we've covered some turf. Lets just everyone stay cool; trust me, this particular board is one of the best if not THE best out there for what we enjoy discussing. Other boards are good, no doubt about it, but so far I've been most impressed with the technical and beyond-the-average-fellow information that is shared here. And so far, EVERYONE that has posted on this thread has been very courteous in posting replies to questions I've bopped up here and there.

So, anyways, anyone got any good groups to post?
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Dave
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Oh, Boyd

That's a hell of a pic. Didn't see that. And a good question; in fact, I'd like to hear a number of "this is how I'd go about it"s on this one.

Here's one question; I think I see the dot, and if I recall, wind is 15mph from the 12 o'clock position, yes? Am I required to shoot right away? I would like to see our furry friend move a tad more to the left. If he moves to the right, I'll be really shanked, because I'm not a good wind-doper, as of yet <very little experience so far, compared to most here>, and am guessing the wind would cause me some trouble. IF I were alone, and the deer HAD to die <lest he return fire>, I guess we click and hope for the best; if the wind's shifting around too much, I'd pass up the shot and dig myself a trench <I'm chicken in high winds, but don't want to wound, either>. Angle LOOKS like 15-20, so I say 17 {Len was kind enough to post details about the old Angle/cosine indicator, so now I have that instead of jostle and error.} If I am nuts and shoot at Rudy with my 6mm Fuzz Cutter <wildcat I'm working on>, I need almost 10 MOA windage and 31.5 MOA elevation. If I'm halfway sane and use the ol` .338-378, I'm guessing I need about 5.5 MOA windage and 23 MOA elevation, respectively. I am also guessing wind line to line of aim is...what do ya` think?--25 degrees? Hard to tell!
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UNfortunately for me, Rudolph will likely get away and report back to HQ as I have not had a chance to test Big W out beyond 700 yards. Luckily for me, a few of you other guys are sitting back in the truck, waiting for me to blow it.
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Dave
 
Cybra,I'm not sure the velocity you are shooting.So try this....Elevation 1200 feet,bar pressure 30.77.Temp 31%. Muzzle Velocity 3003fps.B.C. 711....Sight height 1.7..Humidity 50......Run that and tell me what you think

[ 01-12-2003: Message edited by: Boyd Heaton ]
 
Hey S1
Your wife called and asked me to tell you to get off the 'puter so she can work!
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[Inside joke; sorry it's off topic]

[ 01-12-2003: Message edited by: AeroE ]
 
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