Looking to go 7 STW

Discussion in '7mm STW' started by jkupper, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. jkupper

    jkupper Well-Known Member

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    Hey all! I currently have a 7 RM that I am thinking about converting to a STW when I shoot the barrel out. I have always been a fan of some of the older calibers, owning a 220 Swift, 30-06, and 243 Win. I am also a huge fan of the BC's of the 7mm bullets that are out there.

    Having said that, I was wondering if you all could give me some feedback on other reasons to get a STW over some of the newer 7mm calibers out there. I have sighted in a 7 RUM before for a guy, and I hated being on the end of that gun. Recoil sucked! Does the STW have as much recoil as the RUM? Also, what kind of velocities are people getting from the STW with 168-180 gr Bergers out of 26-28" barrels? What twist rate do you guys have? Anything else that you guys think may be helpful would be good too. Thanks for the help guys!

    Joe
     
  2. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    The STW doesn't have near the recoil of the RUM, unless you're shooting some serious heavy bullets, but it will still be lighter than the RUM. Personally I shoot 168 & 180 Berger VLD's. Alot of the guys here are after speed, so they shoot 140gr bullets.

    I encourage anyone interested in going STW to do it. You will not regret it. As long as your rifle is a 26" barrel. If it is shorter than 26" you will not reach full potential out of the caliber, and even at 26" you might not see 100% potential.

    You will need atleat a 1:9 twist barrel to get optimum performance out of a 7mm throughout the various bullet weights, up to 180gr.

    I think you will enojoy the caliber. It is a very efficient 7mm caliber.
     

  3. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    170-175 grain pills will net you 3000-3100 fps out of a 24" to 26" bbl. depending on propellant. I don't run many 168's but they should be 100 fps faster or more.

    It seems some of the older 7stw's were built with 24" bbl's; they suffice but'll usually be 50 fps short of the 26" tubes. I've seen 24", 25", and 26" bbl's in action and all will hit book vel. with select loads, but the longer the bbl., the easier it is to get there. My current 7stw has a 24" bbl. and my Dad's rifle has a 25" rem with the porting. The 7stw makes a good reach out and tag 'em round for mid weight pills too; I usually run a 140 at about 3400 fps for hunting. Low time of flite and banjo string trajectory with enough energy to knock down deer size game well.
     
  4. jkupper

    jkupper Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the replies fella's.

    I have been looking at trying some of the lighter pills out of my 7RM too, but it shoots the 168 Berger's so well that I have had a hard time trying out new loads:D That's the problem though. I am having such a good time shooting my 7RM that it won't be to long before I need to rebarrel.

    What is the effective range for deer sized game, if the shooter is proficient enough, of a 140-150 grain bullet out of the 7 STW? I am just wondering how much faster those 140 grainers lose energy over a 180 grainer?
     
  5. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    My pops and I have both made kills to 700 yards from sitting or kneeling with 140 sierra flat base pills. I'm shooting the 140 accubond at present with a bit better bc. so the effective range will go up a bit.
     
  6. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    As far as book specs and on paper...The STW with 168 or 180's SHOULD reach out to 1,200+ yards for deer sized game. I know you can take deer effectively @ 1K with a 26" .280 Ackley, and that's 2/3 the powder capacity...And there's guys shooting steel @ 1 mile with the STW's. So I wouldn't see why it wouldn't be effective at very long ranges.

    Maybe some of the other guys can give a more real world perspective on capable distances.
     
  7. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

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    I shoot a 162amax at 3240 from a 26in barrel. Using h1000 I love mine killed both deer and elk past 1000 with it
     
  8. bkondeff

    bkondeff Well-Known Member

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    jkupp

    I am a previous 7stw skeptic. Looking at book data on pills up to 160 grains I didn't see the trade off between velocity and powder charge to be high enough. I actually bought a rifle expressly to pull off the barrel and go to a 7mmLRM. I was already a fan of 168 and 180 vld bullets, shooting the lighter in my two 7RM's. My RM's shot the vld's well, but I wanted more velocity, as I was only getting 2875 out of my 24" barrel, partly because that gun really liked RL19, instead of the slower powders. I decided to shoot a few through the near new barrel on my new STW before pulling it, and to my surprise the 10 twist 26" barrel shot the 168's into .5moa groups(ave) at 200-300yds so far at a consistent 3125fps. I have gotten use to the recoil of my 7RM with a brake, but do not find the recoil of the 7STW to be excessive, even at 8.75lbs, scoped. I push 74.0gr of 7828 behind a F215 primer.

    Your biggest concern will be brass. Finding it isn't easy, though Nosler seems to be avail, but it is insanely expensive. I have cobbled together a small mix of Win and Rem brass. Starting my third loading on the Win and surprisingly have not had to trim it yet. I've shot 1000 rounds out of my 7RM's and always have to trim at least every other sizing, so I don't know why these seem to be better.

    If you hope to buy factory ammo, I would reconsider the change. While they usually have some STW ammo, it is never consistent in what they have, usually some variation of the Nosler offerings.

    My affinity toward 168 and eventually 180 grain VLD's is about the bc, but also about having enough energy to take down a bull elk at farther distances, so I have no interest in a really fast 140. I don't buy more speed vs. less bc, as I just don't see it after say 500 yards. So, while my 10 twist just so happens to shoot 168's very well, I am limited on 180's, so get an 8.5 or 9 twist, though I understand this will retard your speed a bit.

    Lastly, you need to consider bullet seating and your magazine. A main reason I was shocked this new gun would shoot the berger's so well is because I can barely seat over saami spec with my factory mag box. My bullets jump approx. .035", which is contrary to "most" who shoot these bullets. These cases are very long and the magazines are usually the same length as those found on a 7RM, so if you can you might modify your rifle.

    I'm sure you know all this already, but I wanted to let you know that I was a skeptic, but am impressed. The books usually show no more than 50-100fps gain, at the cost of 8-10gr of powder. Getting 250fps more on a pill with a bc of .617, means a significant difference at the ranges I hope to get competent at in hunting situations(700+). My load is only about 5.0 grains more than what most would use of 7828 in their RM's, so 50fps per grain seems reasonable, though my extra 2" of barrel does help.
     
  9. jkupper

    jkupper Well-Known Member

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    bkondeff,

    Thank you for your thoughtful response. I am not really a skeptic of the STW. I actually looked to get one before I settled on my 7RM. It is really hard to find a 7STW in my neck of the woods, and I like to look a gun over before I buy it. In the end I went with the 7RM with the idea that it will become some larger 7mm caliber later.

    I do reload, so finding ammo is not an issue for me. Knowing that the brass is available, though expensive is very helpful information.

    I am also interested in the higher BC bullets, so your post was right up my alley.

    Thank you all for your responses. I have made my mind up to go 7 STW when the time comes. You all pretty much confirmed my gut feeling. It seems like the newest, bestest thing out there isn't necessarily better than something that has already come about. Thanks again!

    Joe

    One more thought. Would I see increases in velocity enough to warrant a 28" barrel over a 26" one. The extra few ounces do not bother me to pack around as I am big enough to carry it. My friends used to sneak rocks into my pack when we went backpacking (jerks). I am more concerned with ballistic benefits. Thanks again!
     
  10. bkondeff

    bkondeff Well-Known Member

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    I believe if you intend to hunt with this rifle a lot, I doubt 28" would be a benefit. I think 3050 is attainable with a good 26" barrel on 168 bergers, as long as your rifle likes one of the slow powders. I doubt anyone gets more than about 3100 with a longer barrel. I personally would prefer a good brake to 2" of additional barrel, if for no other reason to mark your shot in the field(I hated brakes till I used one).
     
  11. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    With one of the 50 cal powder offerings you will be able to hit 3100 fps with a 171-175gr in a 24-26" barrel without to much difficulty. I suggest rl50 or h50bmg for this as I've had very good results with 5010 in overbore 7mm's with heavies and 50bmg is the replacement for it. I've worked with rl50 a bit and it seems it as at least as good if not a bit better than the other powders mentioned.
     
  12. shimoda

    shimoda Well-Known Member

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    I'm shooting 180 bergers over 75.6g H1000 for 3015 fps 10 thou off the lands out of a 26" barrel.
    No pressure signs, 5/8 moa.
     
  13. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    You just identified the biggest reason to go with the STW over the Rum or other larger case 7's. gun)

    I really don't find the STW to have significantly greater recoil than the 7rem and have put literally tens of thousands of rounds through the two calibers over the last thirty years.

    If you look at felt recoil calculators you see that felt recoil goes up dramatically and exponentially with equal weight bullets as your powder charge increases.

    I know there are guys who are in love with the Rum and that's fine for them, but between the reduced barrel life and greater muzzle blast and recoil from the Rum for such a minimal gain in velocity I simply feel like the Rum is not worth it. I think you reach the point where the law of diminishing returns kicks in when you hit the STW for 7mm's.
     
  14. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    Man you can get a million different opinions using a thousand different criteria.

    My longest shot ever on a deer was with 7mm STW Winchester Supreme 140gr factory ammo.

    One shot high on the shoulder transecting the spine and most of the bullet almost penetrating the hide on the backside.

    Dirt dead before he hit the ground and that was at over 1,000yds.

    800yds is probably a "reasonable limit" on deer and I"ve killed a truck load of coyotes between 600-900 with it.

    Using the exact same bullet/ammo from Winchester in my 7mm Rem I would say my limit was 200yds less but it had a 24"bbl and if I remember right, right at 150fps less MV. Don't quote me on that though because it's been over ten years since I gave that rifle to a friend.