Long Range Story: 1999 Elk Season

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by Dave King, May 9, 2001.

  1. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    The 1999 Elk Season

    There were 6 hunters in elk camp, 4 in my party and two who came as individual hunters. We were camped on the edge of the La Grita wilderness area and riding horseback to the hunting area(s).

    Of the 4 hunters in my group, Brian and I had been the only ones practicing at long range. We shoot groundhogs, Texas Wild Boar, deer and targets to respectable distances. In preparation for this hunt we had spend many days at the range and in the field. We had also run some computer ballistics sheets for the altitude and temperature we expected on the elk hunt. We routinely use ballistic printouts as a tool in establishing data at verified ranges.

    Brian had a Weatherby Mark V rebarreled to 27 inches in 30-338 (the old 1000 yard favorite, not the new 30-378 barrel burner). This rifle sported a Leupold 3.5 x 14 30mm tube and he had worked up a load using the Nosler 200 grain partition. The Hart barrel he used really liked those partitions and he could easily group .5 MOA at considerable distances with the furthest verified at 700 yards.

    I had a H-S Precision 2000LA in 300 Win Magnum and was using 180 Nosler Ballistic Tips at 3150fps. I had a Leupold 6.5 x 20 Long Range with MilDots held in place with Badger tactical rings and bases. I was accustomed to the negative response when I mentioned I was going to hunt elk with a ballistic tip but damn the nay-sayers and I was determined to use them as they shot very well from the 300.

    I drove from Maryland to Colorado packed along Brian’s rifles and my gear. We each brought two rifles one spare each, my backup rifle was a 308 Winchester PSS and I had a load of Nosler Partitions that shot well enough that I felt comfortable to 300 yards with the rifle.

    I arrived in camp two days early and puttered around getting acclimated as base camp was at 10,300 feet. Once Brian and the other two members in our party arrived (Donny and Larry) we began getting our gear together and prepared to verify zeros the next day. We spent some time talking with the 2 other hunters in camp, both of whom had brought Weatherbys, one a Vanguard and the other an older Mark V. After much general discussion about our expectations and range limitations it became apparent that one fella from the other group had just had the scope replaced on his Weatherby and had only had it bore-sighted by the gun shop. Brian and I asked if he’d verify the zero at the range, his reply was no, he said the gunsmith had bore-sighted the thing and that should be good enough! We succeeded in convincing him to let use check his zero when we went to the range. The outfitter, Ed Tibljas, was listening to all this and I’m sure he would have required a range check if we hunters hadn’t worked it out among ourselves.

    Ed Tibljas of Triangle-T-Outfitters http://www.triangle-t-outfitters.com/ was well known to us as Brian and I had hunted with him several times and although Ed was initially skeptical about our ability to place our shots well he had with time and several hunts become accustomed to us and trusted our judgment.

    Range day:
    We traveled by truck several miles back down the trail to a suitable area and set up some paper targets. Donny, Larry, Brian and I all checked zeros at 100 yards (laser verified). Donny and Larry opted for the nearly universal hunter version of zero which is close to 2 inches high at 100 yards. I checked the bore-sighted Weatherby and found it was printing 4 inches right and just about 5 inches high, we reset it to the requested 2 inches high setting too. The altitude and temperature were acceptable so Brian and I began our long-range data check. We fired our primary rifles only, first at 200 then 3,4,5,6 and 7 hundred yards. There was one spectator present apparently drawn by the rifle shots, he was a local fella and none too pleased about the Eastern hunters the noise and fancy rifles. At completion we discovered that the ballistic charts predictions matched well with the actual results and would be useful at any distances we considered.


    The Hunt:
    The first morning we rode into the wilderness excited to actually be on the hunt. I was placed on a ‘park’ of about 150 yards by 400 yards and the other hunters were spirited away to other locations. About 9AM a small herd of cows trotted across the park about 150 yards out and right behind them came a small bull probably legal but I wasn’t sure so he trotted off too.

    I heard a few shots during the course of the morning and I was sure everyone else was having a fruitful day while I was busy feeding birds my cookies and warming the ground with my butt.

    At days end we gathered up for the ride back to camp and begin to tell the tales. Brian saw a 6x6 and chased it over a goodly part of a mountain or two but being an Easterner he forgot he had a horse and did all the chasing on foot, he vowed he’d take the horse the next time. One of the fellas in the other group got a shot at an elk at just around 200 yards and missed, several times. We were in a fairly secluded and ‘private’ area and I was the only one that saw anyone other than members of our group…I had spied a helicopter through my binos about midday and counted them as civilization.

    Next day we’re all off hunting again in the same general vicinity. The morning scenario was a bit less enthusiastic with lots of grumpy folks this day; sore knees, sore butts etc. We were all placed in locations in the same general vicinity of the previous day and Brian once again got a look at the 6x6 and the big bull is once again too smart and too far for him. My day was fairly uneventful and I spend some time feeding the birds again and I saw an elk WAY off in the distance and one mule deer doe.

    On to the third day I believe. By now Brian and Ed have got this big 6x6 figured out and we’re going after him in force. We all change locations in an attempt to corner the elusive 6x6 and his harem. I, along with one other hunters am placed in a park on the side of the mountain where Brian has been seeing the big bull. Brian, Donny, Larry and Ed head up the side of the mountain in what turns out to be the correct maneuver. As they come into a clearing where they figure to glass for the herd, the herd is already in place and waiting, just over 600 yards away and up the mountain. Ed asks Brian if he can make the shot from their current position and Brian assures him that the elk is as good as dead. Brian sets up for the shot checks range with the laser and does some final puttering with the bipod. During this entire time the herd is milling around and now the big bull is out of sight and Brian and Ed decide to take a smaller bull. First shot is 635 yards and Brian spots blood on the bull elk’s chest. The rest of the herd begins moving and the bull follows, second shot is estimated at 650 yards and the elk is still standing so Brian shoots again and the bull goes down. The faint noise from these shots caught my attention and I can see Brian and the others as they come out on the top of the mountain. I can’t see the elk at this point and don’t know they have bagged one so I continue my glassing and after a couple of hours decide to walk up to the guys on the top. It’s when I get there that I discover they have an elk and hear the story. Brian shows me the holes in the elk’s chest and Partitions he has recovered and initially I’m a little surprised at the amount to mushroom effect considering the distance but after reflecting feel the bullets worked as designed. The bull’s carcass is examined several more times and good humored remarks are made about Brian’s inability to get all three bullets into one hole in the elk’s chest cavity instead of the three center chest hits he managed, he did some pretty good shooting. All present are rightfully impressed and the elk is dead and packed up.

    Day’s over and we head back to camp.

    Just like anywhere else one good day of hunting requires a return to the same spot so the next day we’re off to the same area as Donny wants to try his luck with the big bull. About mid day Donny spots a smaller bull in a clearing on the other side of the mountain and opts to take this smaller bull and it’s to far for his rifle and it’s 2” 100 yard zero so he asks Brian for the use of the 30-338. Brian is somewhat reluctant but agrees and gets about the business of setting up and ranging the bull, the shot will be 510 yards. Donny initially wants to try shooting from the high supported position (sitting and bipod) but Brian convinces him to use the low prone position instead. Brian reminds Donny it’s a steep drop to the bull and that he should hold low on the chest… first round is fired and they all think Donny has missed as the elk is still standing in the same spot. Brian is convinced that Donny shot too low so he has him hold just below the spine… second shot and the elk stumbles and walks into the timber. By this point Donny is pretty excited and heads off down the mountain with his own rifle to get the elk. Sure enough the elk only went a few yards into the timber and was dead. First round was low chest and blew out the leg on the off side, second round was high chest on the near side and center chest on the far side and we have another dead elk.

    We spend more time hunting that day but no more elk so we figured we chased them out of the area and decide that we’ll try another spot in the morning.

    This will be my day to get some shooting done. Of our 4-man party we have 2 elk and the other two folks have missed one opportunity. Howard, the head guide takes the two fellas from the other group and Ed takes all four of us on a ride from hell. We ride for several hours before sunrise and wait on the edge of a long clearing when we’re near the final hunting area and once the sun comes up and we carefully head out still on horseback. Up the long valley we go and make a sharp turn up the mountain and now we’re heading straight into the morning sun. On top of the mountain we’re greeted with a picturesque view of the Colorado mountains and we traverse the mountain top heading south and make a small turn to the east just at a basalt outcrop near a place Ed calls Stagecoach Pass. Ed stops and glasses the neighboring ridges for elk and abruptly points and says he sees a herd on the ridge directly to the east. Now we’re all in a scramble to get glasses focused and spot the herd for ourselves and sure enough there are elk there but they’re too far away to make out any features. We decide to tie the horses and get closer on foot in an attempt to better glass the herd. I grab my rifle and gear and Larry does the same with Brian and Donny also humping some gear including Brian’s rifle. We initially move over to the basalt and settle down with the rifles to use the higher magnification optics to look for some bulls and in short order we spot two bulls, one nice big bull and a smaller one but both legal. The herd is heading north on the top of the next ridge weaving in and out of the timber but generally heading over the top to the far side. The decision is made to close the distance some more, to the north on our ridge there is a little finger of a ridge going due east, its about 400 yards from our current position and as close as we can get to the elk on this steep sided ridge. We scramble and bump across the basalt and sneak over to the finger to get a look. It turns out to be a very good vantage point but the elk are still moving north on their ridge but still due east from us. Ed and I decide to take the opportunity and we begin to access the situation, the wind is calm and from the north but we can’t get a good laser reading because the elk are due east from us with the sum coming up directly behind the elk. I begin stripping out of my heavy riding clothes and setting up the rifle and begin crawling along the finger looking for a good spot with cover and a place for Ed who will be my spotter. In the mean time Brian has ranged the timberline just short of the elk and he reports 750 yards. He mentions that he can’t range any further because of the sun. I try my rangefinder again and still the same problem. Ed in the mean time is glassing the elk and says he’s sure they’re no more than 950 yards. I know we need a good distance determination so I’m looking at the timber line Brian has ranged and trying to figure the distance from there to the elk which by the way are still heading north and beginning to crest the ridge. I figure they’re no less than 875 yards so we opt for the middle ground and I set the scope for just past 900 yards (about 19.25 MOA if I remember correctly) and tell folks to get ready. I check my position and dig in the bipod legs to get them level and the wind is now from my left and about 3 to 4 mph and I decide to use 1.5 MOA left wind and then tell the spotter I’m ready. We’ve lost the large elk in the timber tops and decide on the smaller bull standing right on the crest of the ridge.
    First round goes and I can see the trace and it’s arcing right, the bull is standing still and I see him shudder and begin to urinate. Ed says the round was high center, at this distance and with the sun behind the elk I can’t see blood just the sun glinting off the urine and the golden halo of hair around the bull. The other elk have stopped feeding and are nervously moving about but the bull remains still and I get ready for a second shot. The winds are still calm and the first shot was a good center hit so I hold a little left and shoot again. This time I’m concentrating on watching the elk and I don’t see the trace. I can hear the rest of the guys talking, they’ve heard the thud of the bullet striking the elk and I can see the elk begin to move forward. He taking slow careful steps and the rest of the herd is scattering. The bull is now coming down off the ridge and heading into the timber. He gets to a log and stumbles and then he’s on the ground and legs up rolling over, he tries to get up and I wait to see if I should shoot again. He rolls behind a tree top and is out of sight with no more movement and the rest of the elk are gone.
    Convinced that the elk is down and we’re done shooting Ed and I get up and begin to take it all in. The guys are milling around shaking my hand cheering and carrying on. Donny and Larry are having a hell of a hoot, “Wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t see it with my own eyes”, “I’m gonna get on of those rifles”, lots of talk and all around cheerfulness.
    After a few minutes of coming down we get our heavy clothing and other gear and decide to leave Brian and Larry on the finger and head over to the site where the elk is down. We left Brian and Larry as we thought there might be a chance that the larger bull may come out of the timber and Larry could get a shot with Brian’s rifle. We head back to the basalt outcrop and saddle up then ride down the ridge. About 45 minutes later we’re on the ridge standing at my elk, he’s a 4x4 and has two holes in the chest. I find one Ballistic Tip just under the skin on the off side nicely mushroomed the other one is gone. In a fashion that I always duplicate I backtrack the blood trail just for education and look at the spot where I shot from, it’s a long way over to Brian and Larry. I’m pretty pleased with the hunt and the outfitter and will always cherish this hunt.

    Distance confirmation:
    The bullet holes in the elk’s chest were a little above center which is where I was aiming. I ran a ballistic printout for 13,000 ft and 45(f) when I got back to my computer and it showed the distance at 905 yards, the guys (Larry, Donny and Brian) say it was further but I believe Ed the computer and I had it right.
     
  2. Fergus Bailey

    Fergus Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Dave

    Well done on the elk. The story was a very enjoyable read. Do you have any pictures and retained weights of the Ballistic Tip Bullets? I would be really interested to get a better feel their performance.

    Fergus
     

  3. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Fergus

    I don't have any pictures of the elk but I did save the Ballistic Tip. I was looking for a macro lens to get a decent picture of it but eventually gave up. I've never weighed the bullet but it looks like its all there except for the polycarbonate tip, I'll hunt it up and put it on the scale and post the weight.
     
  4. the444shooter

    the444shooter Well-Known Member

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    Dave, yes, congrats on the shot, my hopes are to understand mil's and MOA enough to make those shots next season. My cousin, (a sniper/competition shooter for the MT national guard)is gonna teach me this summer. I'm using the 165gr. Nosler ballistic tips in my .300WM Sendero, because of the velocity I get out of them(3300fps, and flat trajec)...my primary use for this gun will be 400-500yd shots on antelope, as my shots at deer/elk are rarely over 300yds, and I will be using my 444SS for elk in thick timber, and possibly my 30'06 for deer, if not the .300WM. However, you got me interested in using the 180gr NBTs because of the performance on your elk. I will hopefully get 3100fps (w/ my .300WM) out of them if I load 'em fairly hot. A few years ago, I too, would've given you a distasteful look if I heard about using NBTs on elk, but not anymore, I'm a firm believer in ballistic tip bullets now. What velocity are you getting w/ your 30-338 (308 Norma, right)? Again, congrats on the shot, and I too will be interested in the retained weight of your NBT.
     
  5. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Ben

    I was using a 300 Win mag and my hunting partner was using the 30-338.

    I took several pictures of the Ballistic Tip this morning but I don't have a site to upload them to for display here. Anyone know a site that hosts images?

    I'll get the retained weight later today.

    The reason I went with the Ballistic tip was the accuracy and I also felt that at the velocity the bullet would be going at the distances I was planning on shooting it would perform well, and it did.
     
  6. brogers

    brogers Member

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    Great job, thats what it's all about up there. Very often the big one only presents itself at great range or for 2 seconds in the birch forest. Long range and trophy hunting are naturals for each other. Anyway a ballistic tip no less. Very interesting.
     
  7. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Okay

    I got a weight on the Ballistic Tip bullet, it retained 151 grains of the original 180. I don't know how much the Tip weighed but that is gone of course.

    I also got four macro pictures of the bullet and can e-mail them to those that want to see it or if there is a site where I can upload the pics I'll do so and we can all see the pictures.
     
  8. the444shooter

    the444shooter Well-Known Member

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    sorry, my mistake, saw the "30-338" in the story too many times [​IMG] interesting how the ballistic tip retained that much weight...I can't wait to try my 165gr NBTs on antelope. Still no word on the exact velocity [​IMG]
     
  9. Fergus Bailey

    Fergus Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Dave

    I have signed up for this photo site, but have not used them as yet. They are only a few weeks old and are catering to the hunting community. http://www.hunting-pictures.com/

    Fergus
     
  10. Roadrunner

    Roadrunner Well-Known Member

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    Dave,

    Great shooting, you should write an article for one of the hunting mag's; good read. Couple of questions. Which laser rangefinder were you using? Second, if I recall, the AI rifle you were using weights approx 14 - 15 lbs (correct me if I'm wrong). Were you using any special strap or sniper drag bag to carry it with/in, or were you just using the shoulder strap? Lastly, which ballisics software were you using, and how did you arrive at your BC for the program. Thanks much, and congratulations again upon a super hunt.

    RR
     
  11. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Roadrunner

    Thanks for the kind words on the story. I'm afraid that my use of the English language and composition will keep me from having very much in print. I'm more of a technical person and the proper use of punctuation and such has never excited me (verifiable with any teacher I have ever had).

    I was using a Bushnell rangefinder as was Brian, he had a compact 800 and I had the older 1000 I believe.

    The rifle was a H-S Precision 2000LA and probably weighed in the neighborhood of 13 pounds. All my rifles are setup pretty much the same, I use a Turner Saddlery (military style) sling or nowadays a Tactical Intervention sling http://www.tacticalintervention.com/
    and carry the rifle over the shoulder. I carry the rifle a little different than most folks; for a long hump I carry the rifle slung over my right shoulder and I hold some of the rifle weight by supporting the butt with my right hand (rifle on the rear of my body and the muzzle points over my left shoulder), for a short hump or when I may need the rifle in a hurry I carry the rifle slung over my left shoulder with the rifle on the front side of my body (my left hand cradles the rifle just above the trigger guard and I apply pressure to hold the rifle away from my body, the butt rests ontop of my belt which supports much of the weight of the rifle).
    The horses did most of the carrying of the rifle during this hunt. Brian and I both needed to make custom leather scabbards for the rifles as the standard versions are far too small.

    The ballistics program that I used during that hunt is the web based JBM http://internet.cybermesa.com/~jbm/ I had several data printouts and checked the data before departure for Colorado and once we arrived on site.

    I now use an Excel spreadsheet that does a very good job. Peter Cronhelm's web site http://www.nucleus.com/~cronhelm/index.html has the 'Sniper Ballistics Computer' spreadsheet available and I believe he'll have a newer version up soon, one that he and I have been working on for a while.
     
  12. Roadrunner

    Roadrunner Well-Known Member

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    Dave,

    Thanks for all the info; your writing and grammer ect.. is/are fine. Remember if you were writing for some mag like Outdoor Life, you wouldn't exactly be writing for a bunch of english professors. Congratulations again on some truly great shooting!

    RR
     
  13. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    To the top.

    Dave is such a good writer, our new members shouldn't miss this story.
     
  14. rolltide

    rolltide Well-Known Member

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    Dave,

    Congratulations on a great hunt, a great shot & a great read. That sounds like it was definetly worht the price of admission [​IMG]

    I beleive it was stated earlier, but a big reason I became interested in LR hunting is because the "BIG BOYS" used to always be "OUTTA RANGE" I'm now working on that.

    Once again, Conratulations

    That should be Required Reading

    Chris