Long Range Hunting/Competiton Rifle?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Porter, Oct 31, 2008.

  1. Porter

    Porter Member

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    I need some Help. I want a rifle that I can hunt with and also use in competition. I have done some long range shooting as a sniper in the Army. I am familiar with The M24, M107 Barret and M110 SASS. I was thinking about getting a Remington 700P and Millet Tactical scope or possibly a Leupold Tactical scope. I was planning on Going with the 308 since that was what I used the most in the army but I have been thinking about going with the 300 Win Mag.
    Should I buy a out of box gun like the Remington or should I look into building a gun from receiver up. If building a gun is the way to go. Where do I start and what are a good combination of parts to get a good 1/2 MOA shooter?

    I know there are a lot of questions there. lol I just have a limited amount of knowledge in this area and need all the help I can get. ;-) Thanks for your time and help.gun)
     
  2. Kevin Cram

    Kevin Cram <b>SPONSOR</b>

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    Porter,
    A few questions can narrow down the type of rifle your looking for. What type of competition are you planning on competing in?
    What type of game are you mostly planning on hunting?
    I have used my 1,000 yard heavy and light guns for deer,bear and woodchuck hunting long range as well as competition. I also use my F-class rifle for woodchuck. I'm in the process now of building a carryable .338-408 Cheytec for deer, bear and elk as well as some sniper competition. It's easy to perform double duty with your rifle if you know your distance limits of the caliber your shooting and the type of competition you'll be competing in. If you want to be a contender in competition a custom rifle is your best bet. Start with a Remington action or a good custom action. Kreiger, Broughton, Hart, and Lilja make some of the finest custom barrels. McMillan if you'd want a fiberglass stock, Joel Russo if you'd want a laminate. Nightforce, Leupold, and Sightron are my scopes of choice. Use top components, a good gunsmith, proper loading and shooting techniques and your 1/2" moa will be no problem to achieve.
     

  3. Limbic

    Limbic Well-Known Member

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    I was in similar shoes not to long ago. I went with the factory remmy sendero chambered in 7mmRM. I then had some relativly minor smith work done to it ie. removed some forend material, bedded, trigger to 2lbs. Put a good scope on it (niteforce) and bought some reloading equipment.

    My first batch of handloads shot pretty well. Several were .6-.7MOA. Room to improve but like I said it was my first batch ever.

    A buddy went with a savage in 270WSM and had similar stuff done. He shoots factory ammo with his and it is sub MOA.

    So i think what you want is doable with factory stuff and reloading. If I was a more patient guy and had cash on hand I might try the complete custom rig. I don't really know what caliber I'd choose. I've never shot a 300 winmag but have shot plenty of 3006's. Recoil isn't much in my 7mm mainly because of the weight of the gun.
     
  4. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    I would ask GA Precision to build you the lightest, true 1/2moa rifle, they can.
    Or you could save money and get a Cooper.
    Good choice on a MK4/M1 Leupold(with alumina sunshade and flip-ups)

    For hunting:
    You cannot hunt from a bench rest(thats target shooting). Hunting is stalking.. So it has to be light, and of reasonable size. It also has to be single-cold barrel shot-accurate-from a bipod. The metal needs to be blacked out. Get stainless, but have it coated.

    For competition:
    From a bipod or bags, You only need 1/2moa from described 'hunting gun'.
    With that, its up to you to shoot it..


    Purpose built hunting guns can be used for competition, but it's completely impractical to use a purpose built competition gun for hunting.
    I have a T2K that could technically be used for both, right?
    Don't be rediculous...
    NO WAY
     
  5. Kevin Cram

    Kevin Cram <b>SPONSOR</b>

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    Mikecr,

    Pm sent.
     
  6. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    You really need to describe what type of comp.. Fclass, 1KBR or what?

    for Fclass, the FTR class you need either a 308 or 223. OPen class anything goes.

    For 1K BR, then go you really need something more than a 308.

    for Tactical matches, 308, 6-47, 260 etc.

    If you looking at minimal cost, then buy the Savage 308 FTR in 308 $925. Either shoot it in 308 or rechamber to 300 WSM for $150 and $20 bolt head change. In case anyone tries to say they will not shoot a savage holds the one mile record!

    I would not recommend the 300 win mag over the 300 WSM. Basicically both are equally accurate, however the 300 WSM has at least 2-3X the barrel life. The IBS 1K National champ this year out right won top place in LG score and LG group and obviously Overall champ with a 300 WSM with 4000 rds down the tube. There has never been a Win mag that has ever gone 2000 rds and been competitiive.

    Nothing wrong with at $3500 GAP rifle, but paying a lot for a name when other 1/2 MOA options are available and cheaper.

    A lot of guys use comp guns for hunting, they are often shot from benches or tripods and they are not blacked out and coating is expensive aesthetics and nothing else. Does not help the gun shoot .001 tighter. No they will not be 7 lb stalking guns but sure can be done, particulariy for LR guns. Kevin Cram (pretty good gunsmith by the way) and Joel Russo for example do it all the time with their comp guns and you might really want to PM either one to discuss in detail.

    IMO it is not cost effective to guy a Remington and "build it up" as compared to buy a custom action right off the bat and saving all the gunsmithing costs and having an action that is worth 50% what you have in it. If you want a rem, then look on the boards for already accurized actions they normally sell for $450-500 tops where as it would cost you $700-1000 to pay for the action and work done. Custom 700 clone is as little as $700 and everything is already done and it will sell for $700 later, not $450.

    BH
     
  7. Porter

    Porter Member

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    WOW that was quick thanks for all your help. To be honest with you I have never shot in any competitions and don't know which is which. Could you guys help me out with what each competition is?

    As for the rifle caliber, after reading about the barrel life being better on the 300WSM over the 300 win mag I would be interested in that or the 308. Could you guys help me out with what calibers you recommend for each comp?

    I would like to do some shooting in the 600y to 1k range, but what would you guys suggest for a beginner in the comp world?

    Now as far as the gun itself, I would like something that was similar to my M24. If I went custom with a Remington 700 action and went from there, how much would that cost me?

    Thanks again for all your help!gun)
     
  8. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Depends on your location and what is shot locally. You can go to BRcentral and look at their list of ranges, LR target shooting.com, 6mmbr.com have list of ranges also.

    In shooting 600 to 1000 you only have limited types.

    Tactical (100-1200 yards, steel and paper targets)

    600 yard BR 5 shot groups x4 for a relay. Ruled presently by 6mm BR derivatives, though a 308 won recently.

    1000 BR- 5 and 10 shot matches for relay win and shootoffs. 6mm, 6.5, few 7mm and lot of 30 cals (zero 308 Win, just not competitive)

    Fclass Two class, FTR (target rifle, but in 308 and 223 only) and OPEN class. The open is 6mm derivatives, 6-5-284, some 280 or 280 Ack Imp and then some 30s. Dredominate is the 6mmBR derivative (6BRDX, 6 dasher, 6-47) and the 6.5-284, which has top ballistics but poor barrel life.

    NRA long range - 600-1000 and mainly 30s.

    Palma- custom tightbore 308 shooting 155 Palma bullets out to 1000 with 30 inch barrels.

    Decide first what you want to shoot, then build the rifle around that.

    You can go to snipershide.com and find all kinds of M24 types for sale from $1200-3500. I would buy a used first as a custom build M24 will run at least $2500-3500.

    Predator action-$700, others up to $1000
    Barrel-$325
    Tapered base-$75
    Trigger-$50-200 (used Rem to new Jewell)
    Rings-$50-200
    Stock-$350-800 (Joel Russo laminate A5 to full blown McMillian Fclass or A5 tricked out)
    chambering and crown barrel-$200
    inlet and pillar bedding stock-$250-350
    Misc gunsmithing $300-1000 or more depending.
    tactical bolt knob installed $100

    Used Rem action $350 to start with and another $300-500 plus depending on blueprint, sleeve bolt, recut threads, lugs lapping etc

    Some smiths offer Rem or custom action packages in your caliber for $2500 and up depending on what you want.

    that is why I recommend buy a good used and shoot it and put it in another caliber when you rebarrel.

    That is also why I recommended the Savage target guns, you will get 1/2 MOA accuracy or better and only spend half the money. You can change barrels yourself in 10 minutes. You can change bolt heads for $20 or whole new bolt for under a $100. Buy a Savage FTR in 308 and buy another barrel in WSM with total cost under $1500.

    BH
     
  9. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Here is a custom 6mm BR and once again possible switch barrel and bolt to 300 WSM. By the way, Kevin Cram from this site did the action truing.

    Chambered 300 WSM barrel for sale on same site for $325.

    BH