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Long Range Hunting & Shooting
Long Range Comparison of some popular cartridges. 6.5,7mm,7.62 Video
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<blockquote data-quote="johnlittletree" data-source="post: 1532698" data-attributes="member: 105653"><p>People have too many false beliefs not founded in fact about a good many things relating to rifles and cartridges.</p><p></p><p>1) Short Actions are not more accurate than long actions and no research empirical scientific research shows that they are.</p><p></p><p>2) No real measurements of stiffness behind the the front portion of the action have been done.</p><p></p><p>3) No science of any kind has ever demonstrated that anything aft of the locking lugs on an action with front locking lugs and more than one lug matters. Remember we are not hanging a heavy load pressing down on the front and rear of the action.</p><p></p><p>4) No one has demonstrated that short action magnums offer anything over standard length or magnum length cartridges when talking about long range hunting.</p><p></p><p>5) While short fat powder columns are all the rage I have not seen anything like research demonstrating the advantage at best we have speculation based on people winning or losing in competition nothing remotely like a double blind study with only a single variable. The data pools are so small that they are only relevant to the person that generate the data point and no one else because the pool is too small to be statistically significant.</p><p></p><p>6) It is not wise to attempt to build any 6.5mm using VLD's on a short action if you truly want accuracy, precision and magnum level performance.</p><p></p><p>7) No one has yet to make a sound argument for short actions with 6.5mm "magnums" performance cartridges or demonstrated that they these new cartridges do anything statically significant over far older cartridges in a hunting situation! </p><p></p><p> The most telling thing though is that Armies have deep pockets and the US Army, Navy and Marine Corp which is part of the Navy have all decided to go with Mk 248 Mod 1 over anything else to kill people at long ranges instead of 338LM or 7mm Remington Mag or some new fangle 6.5mm. It is not like they needed to stick with something from 1968 they just thought it made sense. On top of that in the case of the US Army all of their bolt action rifles are long action so OAL of the magazine boc was not an issue and they could of accommodated a lot of other cartridges. The brass, powder and bullet weight are not at all common with anything in inventory so no gain there. Who would chose a belted cartridge unless it made logistical sense and was mission ready. I have to admit I would like to head-space off the shoulder instead of a belt. No one on this sight wants to hear that though so in one ear and out the other. The supply chain could have supported anything they decided to go with.</p><p></p><p>All these new cartridges using proprietary brass are freq. sold out of stock. I seldom have a hard time getting 300 Win Mag, 30-06 SPRG, 308 Win, 243 Win, 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Weatherby, 8mm Mauser, 7mm Mauser, 6.5x55 brass. I do have a hard time getting 45-70 brass at times.I can also find those at my local Walmart or Meijers if I ever needed to buy factory ammo. Likewise any brass for cartridges used in F-Open can be hard to get at times which again makes them bad for hunting if you can not easily get the brass or loaded ammo any place in N.America, S. America, Africa, Western Europe, Central Europe or Eastern Europe. In fact every time I am tempted to build a 9.3x62 rifle I tell myself no since the ammo and brass are not the easiest to find in N. America and bullet selection sucks in America too. If I ever go back to Africa I will definitely build one but other wise it is just silly. The little German boy in me thinks a 9.3mm is romantic but the American in me thinks it is silly!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="johnlittletree, post: 1532698, member: 105653"] People have too many false beliefs not founded in fact about a good many things relating to rifles and cartridges. 1) Short Actions are not more accurate than long actions and no research empirical scientific research shows that they are. 2) No real measurements of stiffness behind the the front portion of the action have been done. 3) No science of any kind has ever demonstrated that anything aft of the locking lugs on an action with front locking lugs and more than one lug matters. Remember we are not hanging a heavy load pressing down on the front and rear of the action. 4) No one has demonstrated that short action magnums offer anything over standard length or magnum length cartridges when talking about long range hunting. 5) While short fat powder columns are all the rage I have not seen anything like research demonstrating the advantage at best we have speculation based on people winning or losing in competition nothing remotely like a double blind study with only a single variable. The data pools are so small that they are only relevant to the person that generate the data point and no one else because the pool is too small to be statistically significant. 6) It is not wise to attempt to build any 6.5mm using VLD's on a short action if you truly want accuracy, precision and magnum level performance. 7) No one has yet to make a sound argument for short actions with 6.5mm "magnums" performance cartridges or demonstrated that they these new cartridges do anything statically significant over far older cartridges in a hunting situation! The most telling thing though is that Armies have deep pockets and the US Army, Navy and Marine Corp which is part of the Navy have all decided to go with Mk 248 Mod 1 over anything else to kill people at long ranges instead of 338LM or 7mm Remington Mag or some new fangle 6.5mm. It is not like they needed to stick with something from 1968 they just thought it made sense. On top of that in the case of the US Army all of their bolt action rifles are long action so OAL of the magazine boc was not an issue and they could of accommodated a lot of other cartridges. The brass, powder and bullet weight are not at all common with anything in inventory so no gain there. Who would chose a belted cartridge unless it made logistical sense and was mission ready. I have to admit I would like to head-space off the shoulder instead of a belt. No one on this sight wants to hear that though so in one ear and out the other. The supply chain could have supported anything they decided to go with. All these new cartridges using proprietary brass are freq. sold out of stock. I seldom have a hard time getting 300 Win Mag, 30-06 SPRG, 308 Win, 243 Win, 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Weatherby, 8mm Mauser, 7mm Mauser, 6.5x55 brass. I do have a hard time getting 45-70 brass at times.I can also find those at my local Walmart or Meijers if I ever needed to buy factory ammo. Likewise any brass for cartridges used in F-Open can be hard to get at times which again makes them bad for hunting if you can not easily get the brass or loaded ammo any place in N.America, S. America, Africa, Western Europe, Central Europe or Eastern Europe. In fact every time I am tempted to build a 9.3x62 rifle I tell myself no since the ammo and brass are not the easiest to find in N. America and bullet selection sucks in America too. If I ever go back to Africa I will definitely build one but other wise it is just silly. The little German boy in me thinks a 9.3mm is romantic but the American in me thinks it is silly! [/QUOTE]
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Long Range Comparison of some popular cartridges. 6.5,7mm,7.62 Video
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