Long range barrel profile

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by LRHWAL, Feb 17, 2006.

  1. LRHWAL

    LRHWAL Well-Known Member

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    I hope you guys can help me here (again, thank you)... I don't have the experience to take any fliers at this.

    I've finally bitten the bullet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif and ordered (short of some details) an A5 for my TRG (.300 WM 26" Shilen #5).

    Maybe I'm being dumb, but I figured I could order the stock for a barrel contour slightly larger than my current one for when I rebarrel the rifle. I don't foresee anything short of the aesthetic implications which may make that a bad idea.

    My question is: What type of profiles are sensible in a fairly portable package (say 13-15 lbs or so all in) up to a 28 to 30" barrel for a hot .30? I'd like to order that contour profile for my stock and make my life easier in the future.

    The only thing that disappoints me is that I've chosen a pretty bland tan and brown type colour combo for the African plains (and bush). I would have loved something cool (that black and orange I saw on a SAVAGE here some time ago was awesome for example), but my practical side got the better of me.... Unfortuantely for now the rifle won't see only long range use, so the colour is a factor.

    Thanks for the help.

    Wim
     
  2. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    a number 5 conture barrel is a basic conture for the long range type rifles , its basicaly a varmint conture.
    If your gonna be doing shooting that may require several shots then your gonna want aheavier barrel so it won't get hot and "move" as fast.
    I have seen a rilfe that was built with a medium weight Palma taper Kreiger at 28" on a Rem 700 SA and a Lone Wolf stock that weighed under 12 lbs with a scope !
    So it can be done,having a light weight gun with a semi heavy barrel.
    It all realy depends on what your wanting to carry and what your willing to spend
    I know a couple guys that spent probably an aditional $1000 n their rigs just to save a pound or so in wieght , going with Titanium rings and bases and recoil lug , an ADL style stock so you woulden't have the extra weight of the floorplate and a high dollar carbon fiber stock just so they could have the thickest barrel possible , I think the guy that has the Rock Creek 28" M24 conture saved almost a pound having that barrel fluted.
     

  3. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Barrel contours will vary slightly with the barrel makers. Personally, for a Hot 30 cal I think of something in the 300 Wby mag class or larger. For these chamberings loaded with heavy bullets you will get a decent amount of barrel torque.

    As such, for long range shooting accuracy you need to consider barrel stiffness as it will directly effect the consistancy and accuracy of the barrel.

    Barrel length plays a huge role in barrel stiffness. For a 28 to 30" barrel I personally would look at a #7 contour barrel from Lilja. I say from Lilja only as a reference to the specific contour I am referring to as other makers may be slightly different.

    This barrel contour will make your weight limits but if your concerned you could have the barrel fluted with Dans heavy 50 cal style flutes which will drop a full 3/4 lb off a 30" barrel.

    The #7 is very similiar to the Rem sendero contour in size but with a longer full diameter barrel shank.

    If you want a lighter rifle you could go with a #6 contour but I would also limit this to no more then 28" in length when chambered for a large 30 cal magnum.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  4. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    I think most folks are misled by others touting the advantages of stiff barrels. The popular line goes something like: "You gotta have a stiff barrel 'cause they're more accurate!"

    Well, if one checks out how accurate those long 30 to 31 inch skinny barrels are on Palma match rifles then note how accurate these tack drivers are, they just might change their minds about wanting a fairly stiff barrel.

    It doesn't matter how much a barrel whips when it's fired. It only matters that it whip the same for each shot. After all, isn't accuracy the reduction of all variables to zero?
     
  5. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    As many as you can control... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  6. uncleB

    uncleB Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I think most folks are misled by others touting the advantages of stiff barrels. The popular line goes something like: "You gotta have a stiff barrel 'cause they're more accurate!"

    Well, if one checks out how accurate those long 30 to 31 inch skinny barrels are on Palma match rifles then note how accurate these tack drivers are, they just might change their minds about wanting a fairly stiff barrel.

    It doesn't matter how much a barrel whips when it's fired. It only matters that it whip the same for each shot. After all, isn't accuracy the reduction of all variables to zero?

    [/ QUOTE ]this is absolutely brilliant !!!!!!!!!!! NOT . you should write a book on Gun humor I would buy a copy.
    UB
     
  7. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Well, if one checks out how accurate those long 30 to 31 inch skinny barrels are on Palma match rifles then note how accurate these tack drivers are, they just might change their minds about wanting a fairly stiff barrel.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Uh, no. That is incorrect information. Bullets need to leave the barrel at the same point in it's oscillation to get small groups, and the stiffer barrels oscillate less dramatically and are more consistently accurate and easier to get to be accurate. As Fifty driver mentioned, the thinner barrel gets torqued more and will be less accurate even if you have the bullets leaving the muzzle at the same time. Now, you can take a long skinny barrel and find an accurate load, but if the barrel were the same diameter but 4 inches shorter, it would be stiffer and it theoretically would shoot even tighter groups.

    Palma guns have to be handheld so they have to be lighter. If they could find a way to make the gun light while still having a big fat barrel, they would all do it for sure.
    Go check out a br match where guns are shot for absolute accuracy and are heavy by design. 21" 8+ contours are the norm and they are made that way for one reason- <font color="red">stiffness! </font>

    BTW, I have two friends who shoot Palma and their barrels are probably #5 contours and are only about 26" long if I remember correctly.
     
  8. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    Goodgrouper and UncleB, maybe you know something I don't know. What's the typical 20-shot group accuracy you think someone could attain at 800 yards with one of those whippy, 30-inch long Palma barrels that's only about .800-inch at the muzzle weighing about 5 pounds?

    Benchrest competition rifles shoot aggregates of several 5- or 10-shot groups that average about 1/2 moa at 600 yards and about 7/10ths moa at 1000 yards with their stiff barrels. And yes, these rifles sometimes shoot a single group that's smaller. How do you think a whippy, less stiff Palma barrel would compare?
     
  9. LRHWAL

    LRHWAL Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to everyone for the replies.

    Guidance from those more experienced and more informed that than I am is always great.

    Meantime I realised it was a dumb question (so my apologies) because the profiles don't differ that much that the variation in the barrel channel of the stock will be more than a couple of mm's - or say around a 10th of an inch - and that's a gap of half that either side.

    #7 Lilja it is - and I do hope at some point to get a Lilja. I once e-mailed a question to Dan Lilja which didn't relate to one of his products and he was happy to answer my queries and share his experience. I decided to support him at the next chance I got.

    Thanks again.

    Wim
     
  10. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    LRH,i've got a heavy contour, 7mm-7T fluted lilja with only 120 rounds i'll ship to ya for 200$.
     
  11. MagMan

    MagMan Well-Known Member

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    Dave,

    If you don't mind me asking, why would you want to get rid of a 1 in 7 7mm?
     
  12. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    Mag, i'm not good at explaining things but to sum it up in one word it would be "finickyoverboreness" i'm not going to try and explain it because i'm a 2 finger pecker and don't have time. if you give me a call, tonight would be good, i'll explain it in detail. 717-597-7027 EST.
     
  13. LRHWAL

    LRHWAL Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the offer, Dave.

    You'll see that my question was based on next time I rebarrel. Currently the rifle is a .300 Win Mag, Shilen #5 and I wanted to order the stock based on an appropriate contour for next time around. currently the rifle doubles for some (heavy toting) bushveld hunting (lots of walking).

    Thanks again and thank you all for the input.

    Wim
     
  14. Centre Punch

    Centre Punch Well-Known Member

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    One of the main reasons for the long barrels on TR (Palma) rifles is sight radius, also i presume it works the same way in the US, shots are called and pointed by the butt marker these are then recorded by the shooter he will then wait for a right condition to fire his next shot.
    sometimes 2 shooters will engage the same target allowing even longer times between shots, so what i am saying is, barrels dont become hot enough to affect accuracy.

    Ian.