Long range ammo? Need help!

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by hutner3421, Jun 16, 2010.

  1. hutner3421

    hutner3421 Member

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    I recently joined the forum hoping to get some insight and pointers into long range shooting. I am looking at eventually getting into competive long range shooting, so hope to get some tips from you all. I am currently focusing on my ammo. I am curious if there is a factory loaded round that I can purchase that has consistant BC ( balistic coeficient) out of the box. I am also considering loading my own ammo. I know that loading my own is less expensive in the long run. I have never loaded my own ammo, so this is why I am inquiring into factory loaded ammo. I am shooting a .308 out of a remington 700 base with a 26" barrel having a 1 in 12 twist. I am currently shooting right at 1 MOA with inexpensive Win and Rem ammo, but almost always end up with a flyer about every 4th or 5th round. Obviously want to get sub MOA grouping and understand that I will have to do some more mods to my rifle before I can achieve this, but want the best oppurtunity with what I have.

    I would appreciate any suggestions or input and if there is any additional info needed......please ask.

    Thanks
    [​IMG]
     
  2. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member

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  3. I would think that all modern ammo would have a consistent BC out of the box. I can't imagine bullets of the same manufacturer in the same lot varying much.
     
  4. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    Here's another link for your viewing;

    TTI Armory .308 Winchester Ammunition

    Let us know how you make out once you've done some shooting with match ammo. You may still experience flyers.
     
  5. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    Even ''match ammo'' can vary for consistancy from rifle to rifle. The only way to truely shoot what your rifle likes is to ''roll yer' own''. Not only are you gaining an intimate knowledge of your rifles likes and dislikes, wich helps determine and diagnose problembs and positive feedback, but your customising your ammo for a particular purpose in a particular rifle. Quality controll is completely up to you. IMO, brass prep is just as important as the components wherever accuracy, and consistancy is concerned. I would highly recomend handloading over any production ammo-match or not. JMO. Good luck.

    EDIT;
    As odd as this may sound, I never ''realy'' learned how to shoot untill I started handloading, and shooting long range. Ive been shooting since I was in diapers, and most of my friends and family would consider me a ''good shot''. I however always see room for improvement in my personal ability. Handloading has taught me SOOOO much about my equipment, and in combination with reaching out there past my comfort zone for practice, I have noticed a MAJOR improvement in consistancy and accuracy.
    Like I said Ive been shooting since I was in diapers, and my dad was an AWESOME teacher for the fundamentals etc. Heck I got my first grouse at 3 yrs old with a .22 with dad helping me hold the rifle up. But my personal ability seemed to ''plateau'' or, level off if you will, somewhere in my early to mid 20's. It wasnt untill I ''learned'' about all that goes into making consistant and accurate ammo that I noticed any real gain in my ability. When I tailored my own rounds to give my rifle what it liked, my confidence soared and accuracy was there, It all came down to me, the trigger man. Im no Bench Rest shooter for sure, and Im not claiming to be able to ''super-fine-tune'' ammo for bench rest matches. I have a long way to go and alot of tricks left to learn, but theres absolutely no doubt in my mind how much handloading has helped my shooting ability, and understanding of what it takes to be consistant. Let alone knowing how to feed my rifle what it likes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2010
  6. hutner3421

    hutner3421 Member

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    Thank you gentlemen for your feed back. Winmag, I think you are right about "rolling my own". From what I have seen, I can load my own match grade ammo for under a dollar a round starting off, and then once i have some good brass and the other components.....probably get down around .35 cents a round. I am currently looking at the Siera Matchking 168gr and Hornady 168gr Amax. Of course this is just a starting point. I have found some good suppliers for the bullets, but does anyone know of a inexpensive place to get brass. Plus any pointers on the loading process that you have learned along the way would great as well!!
     
  7. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    My best advise for brass would be buy the best you can afford in bulk to keep the price down.
    I started loading on Federal brass from factory ammo I shot up. I never knew how unpleasent it was to work with untill I got my hands on Winchester brass. Now I cant wait to try Norma, or Nosler. I belive you (shooting a .308) could buy Lapua.
    As with hand loading equipment I firmly belive, buy the best you can afford the first time around. You have a couple good choices of bullets listed already.
    If you are using the brass as a learning tool to get started look in the L/R/H for sale section near the bottom of the main page. If none is for sale post a want add there. Sometimes you can get a ''good deal'', but if your loading for L/R comp. Id buy the best new brass I could afford. Look at some of the sponsers here and see what they have to offer.
    Also folks like Boss Hoss who are B/R shooters would know way better than me where to get good brass for B/R and comp. shooting.
    Take what he has to say with a grain of salt, as he's a wealth of information, but definately ''salty'':D. He's helped out alot of folks (me included) with load info or tricks for this or that, etc. but B/R shooters/handloaders can be on a different playing field from ''casual loaders'', hunters, and or beginners like some of us who scrub,tumble,size,trim,tumble again,prime,weigh load,and adjust seating depth to your particular rifles prefered specs for accuracy,and shoot. (ie; brass prep only BEGINS with weighing each brass, capacity testing,bullet comparators,turning necks,uniforming primer pockets and flash holes, bla-bla-bla. Some of wich we all do, but these guys wouldnt dream of loading thier brass untill this and all sorts of other tedious things that most folks take for granted were done to absolute perfection). Sometimes they can seem a bit ''coarse'', or ''rough around the edges'' with thier advise, but theyre trying to help us folks who arent quite on thier playing field B/R level. So dont be offended by some of the responses you may get. Like I said ''salty'':D but realy know thier stuff for tailoring an accurate load for an accurate rifle to make it B/R, comp. ready. Boss Hoss, and many others here, some of whom dont even shoot comp. seem to have a bag of tricks that doesnt have a bottom to it. Listen close and pay attention to the vetran loaders. I know Ive gained a ton of usefull tidbits just from reading replies to posts concerning problembs and solutions I hadnt even had yet. L/R/H is (imo) the absolute best place one can go to learn and put into use such a wealth of valueable knowledge. There doesnt seem to be a question asked here that someone doesnt have an answer to.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2010
  8. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    winmag has given you some very good advice. Here's a link to another forum that's pretty much dedicated to BR competition which you may also want to visit.

    Benchrest Central Forums
     
  9. XMC

    XMC Well-Known Member

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    Till you can get started reloading your own you might try picking up a concentricity gauge; Hornady makes a nice one that you can check and correct your run out with which I have found to get pretty bad with factory ammo…
     
  10. hutner3421

    hutner3421 Member

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    XMC

    Thanks for the advice.
    What is a concentricity gauge.......run out? I am still new to all the ammo specifications. All I have ever done is load, aim, and shoot......for the most part.
     
  11. XMC

    XMC Well-Known Member

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    Ok… here is a link to give a good idea of what bullet run out is (http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.rifle-reloading-bullet-run-out.html)
    I like the Hornady gauge because you can correct as you check your ammo. (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=220200)
    I rarely use any factory ammo anymore if so just for plinking and (Never for Hunting) but I do still check my hand loads so the gauge isn’t an investment that will be sitting on a shelf and never used again once you start reloading. Depending on the type of dies and your set up you’ll still use it. I started out with some cheaper dies and now only use competition bushing dies; mine are redding dies but there are other brands that some swear by also. I generally run about .001 for run out with my bushing dies.
    As some of the guys have said; the cartridge accuracy starts with the brass and there is a lot you will get into a habit of checking and anal about once you get started; concentricity is just one of those things. The sharper the ax the better the cut you know…
    Hope this helps…
     
  12. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    Nice writeup on run out. Thanks for sharing.
     
  13. XMC

    XMC Well-Known Member

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    Always glad to help and share if I can as others have done for me… I’ve been shooting since I was about 9 years old and still have never lost my love for it, I’ve been through many puzzling times trying to figure out and master reloading for that perfect round and talking to people, reading and nowadays with forums like this site I still find out how much I don’t know and ways to improve what I do. Iv’e been reading this site and others for awhile and really like the helpful and friendly atmosphere here so decided join this month.
    Really appreciate this forum and will definitely give all of its sponsors first choice for future needs.
    Good shooting friend…
     
  14. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    KMC, well we're glad to have you here. Enjoy and take care.:)