Long Distance Load Tuning

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by bkondeff, Jul 24, 2009.

  1. bkondeff

    bkondeff Well-Known Member

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    I have found a good load for my new Tikka SS 25-06.

    52.0 gr IMR 4831, Berger 115, Fed 210, seated to touch, neck and bullet runout less than .002 ave. Velocity = 3040

    Four initial groups at .90, .55, .44, and .25. The first of the string included a first shot, cold bore, fouling shot that was approx .40 from the other shots.

    Now when I take this load out to 200 yards, my groups have been 1.60 1.90 and 2.1.

    It may be me, but so far it seems that the groups are opening up. As I test at longer ranges, are their tricks anyone has found to tune. I already went through some seating and primer tests, but should I redo them at longer ranges?
     
  2. jmason

    jmason Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a chronograph? What's your es? for how many shots?
     

  3. loaders_loft

    loaders_loft Well-Known Member

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    are they opening up horizontally or vertically?
     
  4. bkondeff

    bkondeff Well-Known Member

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    cloverleaf up close and a fairly even triangle at 200.
     
  5. 3fingervic

    3fingervic Well-Known Member

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    Were you talking inches? If so, those groups @ 200 yard seem pretty close to the MOA you were getting @ 100 yards. If I shoot .5" group @ 100 yards, I would expect to shoot a 1" group @ 200 yards. And that's if the wind isn't a big issue.
     
  6. bkondeff

    bkondeff Well-Known Member

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    My point s that I went from basically .5 MOA load, to 1.0 MOA load from 100 to 200 yards. I didn't believe it was the wind or the equipment, though some portion may have been due to a relatively thick center crosshair on my Zeis Z-600 reticle.

    At 200 yards I would expect to maintain closer to the .5 MOA with a goal of under or at MOA out to about 600 yards.

    As it turns out I ran some more of my 52.0 grain 4831 loads and shot them at 100 yards again and got 2 groups between 1.5-2.0 moa. I'm sick. I had to bump the shoulder back a few thousands before this reload instead of just neck sizing and had a harder than expected time with the FL Die, as they seemed to want to stick in the die even though they where well lubricated. So much so that I actually stuck a die in. While the neck runout seemed to stay around .001", I think somehow the friction on the cases are the cause of this group as all else seemed well. I have ordered a Carbide sizing button and will run the rest of the brass with that and see if all is well again.

    This can sure be frustrating.
     
  7. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    It helps to tune your loads at the distances you intend to shoot and not worry about 100 groups. 100 yard shooting, testing and development has its place but as you are finding out, it can be frustrating.

    Make sure your paralax gets adjusted from 100 to 200 yards when you move.

    What bullets and twist are you using?
     
  8. lever-hed

    lever-hed Well-Known Member

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    Bkondeff,

    My suggestions would be:


    a) Sierra manual shows 50.9 max load for imr4831 in their 117 gr SBT’s, IMO check for pressure signs and check berger manuals, seems quite hot..
    b) You cant force a bad load to be good, go with what the data is telling you,
    c) don’t change seating depths while testing a load, and if you did not, only when you find the right powder and charge wt, then fine tune by adjusting seating depth,
    d) You may have seated too close to begin with, granted they are 115 bergers, either try a diff bullet or differeint powder, (Retumbo, RE-22, RE-25, h4831, I have found all these good powders with the 25-06), seat .020 off and work closer in .005 increments, but only after you find a good powder charge. (use chrony for pressure spikes when close or at the lands, be careful).
    e) How are you prepping your brass, and what is your full recipe? Are you using the same die process for each and every case? IMO bag the FL die for a necksizer..and get a Redding body die to bump the shoulders…
    f) Keep testing at 100 , IMO only when you feel confident in your reloading and bench technique should you move out to 200…

    good luck
     
  9. backwoods hunter

    backwoods hunter Well-Known Member

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    In my 25-06 IMR 7828ssc is the power im using. With bergers i only group test at 200 yds. They can be sleeper bullets at 100. Most 25-06 rifles like hot loads and that runs true with mine. My experience with bergers bullets, Witch is not allot, is that they like a little jump to the rifling's. My 25-06 likes .040 off the lands and my 30-06 likes .050 off. hope that helps.
     
  10. Robbin

    Robbin Well-Known Member

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    I think your 200 yard groups are close enough to try a longer distance. I've often found my groups don't open up as much between 200 and 300 as they did from 100 to 200. My favorite rifle is just about MOA at 200 and half MOA from 400 to 700 which is the furthest I've shot it.
     
  11. RockZ

    RockZ Well-Known Member

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  12. ejones338

    ejones338 Well-Known Member

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    I noticed that you called it a "new" rifle. If so. Has the barrel been properly broken in? If not it may be fouling quickly still, so you may need to clean and fire a fouler more frequently than you are.
     
  13. Shootin4fun

    Shootin4fun Well-Known Member

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    This brings up a point I've been wondering about but haven't run any tests to find the answer. It may be a dumb question but here it is anyway...

    Does the paralax/focus setting have a significant effect on the POI? Say I have it set and focused at 100. Then I start shooting at 200 with the same setting despite the fact that the target is not quite as sharp as it could be. Will the POI be different at 200 if I then change the focus? In other words, is it imporant to always return to the same setting for a given distance that was used when sighting in?

    Finding the same exact adjustment would require adding hash marks to the paralax adjust dial, and to make matters worse I have 2 Nikon Monarchs where the yardage numbers are significantly off from the actual distance at which the image appears sharp. There is significant latitude in the adjustment zone while the image is as sharp as it can be. So changing from 110 - 180 for example may make no difference in image sharpness on an object 200 yards away. This makes it hard to set the paralax to the exact same point for a given distance each time.
     
  14. RockZ

    RockZ Well-Known Member

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    Parallax adjustment makes a huge difference.
    There is a huge difference between focus and parallax.
    I can't type much since I'm using my phone to write this
    Please do a search for proper parallax adjustment.