Well i guess i am jumping in on this a little late, but i think we are mixing several subjects and problems all together here. And some of the stuff i feel strongly on.I don't know what where the actual events of this shooting, i wasn't there. I would like to know if its true the guy was bieng held down etc etc.
Now if i had 3 blokes follow/chase me, obviously armed or not, i'd be legging it. If they identified them selves as police officers i'd then stop. But thats me, with the vast majority of UK police bieng not armed, attempting to run away from the police if a form of sport amongst many who have occasion to to be stopped. For petty criminals and people whos's visa / work permits have run out, its a fair gamble, you get away, your home free, they catch you, so you got caught. Its worth the attempt to abscond. and i don't think petty criminal, illegal alien jo public would have realised the possible consequenses of an escape attempt.
The Brit police are im my oppinion and experience vastly incompetent. it stems from lack of training, lack of support and a cancer within the police force called Political Correctness. It is a shame because there are some very fine and upstanding police officers within the british police force, unfortunaltely there are some down right nasty, un trustworthy horrible little power mad bad apples that spoil things a fair bit.
By and large i do not think that a person in the UK joins the Police force through a will to serve his / her community or country.Some do i'm sure, but it is mostly a job like any other, a difficult un rewarding job yes, some join out of a power desire. Now i can see both sides of some of the situation, at least 6 members of my immediate family are serving police officers in variouse parts of the country,and personaly i have been arrested on more than one occasion, am i a criminal. no. ive been arrested on false accusations, ive been arrested for defending my self from harm, ive been arrested for defending my father from a knife attack, only to be up on charges of grievous bodily harm for an action i have no doubt saved my fathers life.For that one i recieved the unjust punnishment of bieng bound over to keep the piece for 2 years,, funnily enough the knife wielding attacker got exactly the same punnishment, some justice! Ive been subjected to a weeks interrogation by an over zealouse police force, after bieng arrested by an armed police unit, bieng subjected to sleep deprivation, food deprivation and other injustices. Why. because some schizophreinic female concocted a cockand bull story about my involvement with a certain Irish terrorist organisation and my alleged activities of illegal gun running. Gentlemen, my only crime was to dump the female in question for a nicer looking one.But it took a large portion of a certain (renoundly incompetent) police force a good week to work out, that not only was there no smoke without fire, but there was no smoke and no damned fire. but they did everything they could to make any cock and bull charge stick and failed and my lawyer had a field day thereafter.
I have also worked with several police units on many occasions during my time as a soldier, i saw great heroism, profesionalism and comtetence and a fair amount of laziness, incompetence, racism. ive seen many sides of Her Majesties Constabulary and feel qualified to pass comment.
Was i ever a criminal? a definate NO. Now i know it must be soul destroying when you do your job as a policeman to the best of your ability to uphold the law, only to have the crown prossecution service buckle at the knee and the bad guy is back on the streets asap. it would make me wonder , why bother?
There is a lack of backing from above for the police officer on the beat. ( same same to a slightly lesser extent British Army)The association of chief police officers are for the most part a group of pompouse PC fools all with an ulterior motive and a desire for knighthood and own career path. Those politicians and law above are just as bad. There is a rot in the police force that needs fixing. It starts at the very top and works its way down. The good officers are powerless against the tide. Misinterpretation and even twisting of the law is rife. There is little desire to implement long term effective preventetive measures at combating crime of all kinds, British justice is all about a quick fix, paying lip service without actualy having the courage and conviction to take effective measures. Why, because the effective nessecary measures might put some voters nose out of joint and offend certain minority groups. We only have to look at the pistol ban to have evidence of one of the most injust, useless, twisted and ineffective parts of UK legislation, but that didn't matter. it was an attempt to gain votes. Why can the active pistol shooter in Germany, Holland and many other EU countries be trusted to own a pistol. Is there something in the charachter of the British person that makes them into a raving murderouse lunatic by just coming into contact with a hand gun? Same can be said for semi auto centre fire rifles. I am English, The German Gov't and Police force trust me to own and use pistols and semi auto rifles, why then doest the Gov't and Police force of my own country?
Coming back to the incident in question, the current situation cannot be used by the police as a free ticket to get some trigger time, if the officers involved truely believed that they and other bystanders where in danger then they where absolutely justified in taking this guy out, however if it is true the guy was restrained and then shot, that to me is an execution. and such methods where practiced by the Gestapo. Yes we( of the guys and gals who put them selves in harms way) are dealing with evil people, and yes i think in certain cases we should fight fire with fire. unfortunately i have a nagging doubt in my mind that the officers involved had recieved enough effective training to be put in the situation they where in and i have a strong suspicion that the whole affaire was bungled, i don't know all the facts, but if that guy had been a suicide bomber, he should have never been allowed to get anywhere near a tube station.
The British police firearms units are notoriouse for bodged operations, for shooting the wrong persons. In my opinion it is due to a selection and training problem combined with poor leadership, poor support,lack of commitment and political correctness.
Yes i'm for capital punishment and hard line policing, but hard line policing should be hard where it needs to be and the people enforcing that should be trained and equiped to know when and where to draw that hard line. The people in charge of those people should have an effective and realistic plan.
I think the times to come are going to realy test the moral fibre of the nation as a whole, i think threats need to be recognised and assessed and obviouse non threats (like legal gun owners) should be left in peace to go about thier lawful activites, hobies and sports instead of un needed control measures bieng a drain on police resources.
Now if our legal system worked as it should, that brazilian guy would have been either sent home to the safety of his own country as his permit ran out, or issued with an extension,. he would then perhaps bieng less inclined to run away. The UK is in a mess, effective laws that have been in place for years are not bieng implemented, new and unnessecary laws are bieng rushed through, some of which are an infringement on freedom and human rights of the British people. This chaos makes it far easier for terrorist cells to operate and for criminals to endulge in crime, it makes a life in freedom and liberty in the Britain of today an almost imposibility. So many issues and contributing factors in so many facets of society need to be addressed before there is any chance of advancement in a positive and just direction.
Now i found the original reason for Matts posting here, the info board comment pretty amusing, but thats our Brit humour, its how we cope and we are renouned for it.
The situation of terrorism, crime and effective measures of dealing with both, requires some very carefull logical and levelheaded consideration. I hope the Politicions and the Police don't dig us into a deeper hole then we are already in.
Pete
