Load Workup Q? on 300wm

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by twoftagl, Apr 22, 2012.

  1. twoftagl

    twoftagl Well-Known Member

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    Greetings! New here, and first time working up a rifle load.

    With all the variables, I wanted to make sure I have a decent methodology so I don't wear out the barrel by the time I find something that works. I really like Jason Baney's approach on powder, but with all the other components being a variable, it doesn't seem too feasible to run a full test for each combination.

    My big question is whether to test the bullet or powder first?

    I'm thinking the chances of getting a bullet that just doesn't want to behave in my barrel are slim, so pick a good bullet (s) and do a load workup on the powder? Would that be a good guess?

    After the powder, then primer?

    Thanks for your help!

    Chris
     
  2. Trnelson

    Trnelson Well-Known Member

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    Hunting load I take it? What are you hoping to hunt? At what range?
     

  3. reelamin

    reelamin Well-Known Member

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    I have never heard of doing one thing until it shoots the best....then changing another of the components you just used.....then another. Try them all with a particular bullet that you want to use. If it won't shoot the way you want then start again with a different bullet. Mine way in simple terms....First look at my book for what has worked in the most different rifles.

    OAL to fit in the magazine and not touch the rifling.
    Two different brands of primers (I would use Mag in a WM) and probably 4-5 different powders with three different weights for each type of powder.
    New brass and neck sized brass.
    Then pick the best 4-5 loads...and start adjusting powder weight and seating depth.
    All different powder and primer loads are chronographed.
    Then just narrow it down in smaller adjustments. You should know what velocity and accuracy are best for you situation within 100 rounds pretty easily.
     
  4. twoftagl

    twoftagl Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Hunting load. CPX-2 and CPX-3 class up to 500 or 600. Also practice at those and longer ranges to get better.

    I'd like a bullet that can do both at all ranges, but I think 2 bullets are probably the better answer. Nosler's 180 Bal Tip for deer and the 180gr Accubond for elk. Both have the same BC, so I'd like to try those. That way I only have one ballistics solution and scope-dope so I can concentrate on the fundamentals til I get a little better at this. Of course, that's assuming they both shoot the same.

    Really like the sounds of the vld, so I'd like to try those as well. Just not sure those would be as well suited for close-in or shoulder-shots on the elk so I'm kinda leaning towards the two-bullet solution.

    Chris
     
  5. reelamin

    reelamin Well-Known Member

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    Please don't take any offense and I think it is great you are asking. What is "CPX Class up to 500-600"?

    Are the two ranges 500 and 600 yards?

    Don't try switching bullets. You are way better off to find a quality hunting bullet with controlled expansion. Of the two you mention no question it would be the 180 Accubond because of the Elk. I have been lucky enough to have killed quite a few deer and bull elk with my 300WM using 125 - 200gr bullets from many different companies. All reloads...some worked great and some did not, but they all worked enough to kill the animal.

    Based on the ranges you are going to be shooting no way would I go with a VLD. Too many good quality bullets that have fully predictable and repeatable on game performance at the distance your talking.
     
  6. Trnelson

    Trnelson Well-Known Member

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    IMHO, Take a long look at the 190g or 210g Berger vld hunting bullet. You should be able to come close to 3,000 fps with the 190 and low to mid 2,900 fps with the 210g. The Nosler 180 Accubond is a good choice for 180g hunting bullets. YMMV
     
  7. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    I've gotten excellent results with this load in my Encore with its 28 in. barrel. Muzzle velocity is about 2,850 fps.

    One problem I've found with the Accubonds is that the white plastic tips sometimes break off in the magazine. This, of course, isn't a problem with a single shot rifle but for loads you intend to shoot from a magazine fed rifle, I'd probably consider a different bullet; namely the Berger VLD.
     
  8. twoftagl

    twoftagl Well-Known Member

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    reeladmin: none taken! CPX is a Class system that I think Winchester started to describe the size of Game... my apologies, I thought it was used a little more regularly. CPX-2 is deer-sized game and CPX-3 is Elk-size. I'll be hunting both whitetail and (hopefully) Elk.

    I'll start with one bullet then, and find a nice recipe


    Trnelson: I'd really like to try them. Will the same weight work with both deer and elk, or go with different weights?

    Grumulkin: man that's a good shooting setup! I'm surprised about the tips coming off, though...have a lot of people had the same problem?

    Thanks again, all!
     
  9. Trnelson

    Trnelson Well-Known Member

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    I'll start with one bullet then, and find a nice recipe


    Trnelson: I'd really like to try them. Will the same weight work with both deer and elk, or go with different weights

    IMO, I would pick one or the other and not simultaneously work on both. The probability of both bullets having the same POI is slim and none. Either of those bullets will be strong medicine for deer or elk. Personally I would go with the 210 and it's better BC which will give you less drop and less wind drift. At 5-600 yards, IMHO, that could be the difference between a freezer full of meat and a clean miss, or a wounded but unrecovered animal. I use the 230g Berger tactical OTM personally in my 30/338 winchester. I run it right about 2,800fps, it prints 1/2 MOA for me. I have been considering the 210g Berger vld hunting bullet as it matches or betters the 230g I'm currently loading out to 700 and frankly I've never had the need to shoot beyond 500 while hunting. That being said, I have personally always gravitated to the best BC bullet I could get my hands on and the .711 of the 230g tactical OTM is hard to ignore. I worked on the 240g Sierra MK but just couldn't get it to shoot even MOA out of my 26" 10 twist tube. I just don't think I could shoot it with enough velocity to fully stabilize the 240 SMK. The hotter I shot it the better it printed for me, I just ran into pressure before I got where I wanted as far as accuracy is concerned. With the case volume of the 300wm you may be able to find great accuracy provided you have at least a 10 twist barrel, and a 9 would be ideal for the big SMK. Velocity is a nice thing to have but accuracy is irreplaceable.
     
  10. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    If you can't get a Nosler accubond or Partition to shoot with Imr 4350 or H4831sc in decent brass with standard primers (CCI BR2s Fed210Ms etc..) then you shouldn't even waste money on berger bullets until your loading skills are honed in. Noslers are probably the most forgiving with seating depth, neck tension, bad case prep, etc.., Sierra MKs are also but most will say do not use those for hunting.
     
  11. twoftagl

    twoftagl Well-Known Member

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    I think that's what I'll aim for then, one bullet at a time.

    The 230gr VLDs do look awesome. Do you think the 300wm has the git up 'n go for that bullet? If so I might play with it them after the freezer is full.

    As for the reloading, I've got about 100 Winchester fire-formed brass that I'm going to neck turn, neck size (lee collet) and uniform the primer pocket in and out. I just need a good tool for that, don't have one yet. The BR2 from CCI seems to come up quite a bit so I'll give them a good try, as long as it gets along with the powder. Haven't decided if I'm going to mess with the runout gauge yet.

    Hopefully this will get me on the right track.

    Oh, and ordered a McMillian A3 from Len today the wife didn't even divorce me :D. Today's a good day
     
  12. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what your barrel length and twist are, but if I were going to shoot the 230 OTM I would want atleast a 26" 10 twist, even better with a 28-30" to break 2800fps a lot easier, but since there isn't a huge difference between the 215 and 230 OTM bc wise, i'd stick with the 215 as the heaviest in a win mag. Winchester brass is tough and last a good while but for best results it should be weight sorted. Also no need to turn the necks unless you have a tight neck chamber, and by your post mentioning a Lee collet die I'm guessing you do not. Just clean the necks up with 4 ought steel wool or 600 grit sand paper. I would also steer clear of the collet die and get a Redding type S. For your game and distance selection, the 180 BT or accubond will do the job just fine with Imr4350 and BR2 primerrs and should break 3K fps with a low ES.
     
  13. kermodie

    kermodie Active Member

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    Based on your questions re: load development and bullet performance on game, I assume you are new to the sport. If not I apologize.
    My advice, don't get caught up in the long range thing until you get considerably more expierance under your belt. Pick a good HUNTING bullet designed for the largest game you plan to hunt and use it for everything. Better to be over-gunned for the deer than be under-gunned on Elk, Moose. A good controlled expansion 180 gr will do fine. You don't need a VLD unless shooting at LONG ranges.

    Start with your chosen bullet, and two of the most often listed powders in the manuals. 4350 and 4831 were already mentioned. Load three rounds of each powder at the "average" starting load listed in the manuals. Increase the charge weight by 1/2 grain and load 3 more of each powder. (Don't change any other variables). Continue increasing the loads by 1/2 gr until you reach the max listed, or you reach max pres/velocity in your rifle.

    Once that is done, analize all the targets and you should have at least one that is noticably tighter than the rest. Now load more exactly the same as your best group and varify it was'nt a fluke. If you still want to improve on that, play with seating depth, then primers to fine tune it. If none of those work for you, try another bullet, and/or powder and start over. And all the while you will be gaining knowledge and getting more trigger time.

    Focus on becoming a good hunter/shooter and the rest will fall into place.
    remember the rule KISS.
    And Have fun
     
  14. twoftagl

    twoftagl Well-Known Member

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    Yup, that's right kermodie, new to the long range thing. I've Shot a bunch of 3 & 4-position smallbore, but not long-range and haven't reloaded for rifle yet.

    My plan was find a load that works and then proceed to wear out the barrel learning how to make it all come together. I'm pretty comfortable with the rifle out to 400 yards on deer, a four-inch group no problem. The two whitetails I took with it were both close-in though, so I'll probably have to get stationed back out West before I'll get some real-life practice. But can't wait to get busy wearing out that barrel!

    backwoods83: yeah, you're right, I've got a 26" bbl w/ a 10 twist now so the super-heavies probably aren't in the cards for me with this rifle. Yet. Probably won't mess with the VLDs until I can shoot long enough for them to make a difference, like kermodie said.

    You mentioned not needing to turn the necks unless I have a tight chamber, just curious why that is? I have no idea how tight it is, it's a stock chamber in a 700 5r, so I assume it's on the loose end.

    Thanks for the help on how to find the right load!

    Cheers!
    Chris