load development frustrations

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by freebird63, Aug 20, 2010.

  1. freebird63

    freebird63 Well-Known Member

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    I have been trying to come up with a load for months now, I had some very promising loads at 100 yards and when I moved out to 200 yards they went to heck. I have spent so much money and time. I have a sendero 300RUM.

    I keep asking myself this question "Am I expecting too much from my gun, I feel I should be able to shoot a 5 shot group into a quarter size circle at 200 yards-Can my gun do this???"

    I have tried berger bullets, 185gr, 190gr and 210gr
    I have tried hornady 208gr A-Max
    I have tried nosler 180gr accubond
    I have tried nosler 200gr accubond
    At first I thought my trigger was my biggest problem, went out and bought a jewell trigger.
    I put a wyatt extended magazine box in my gun so I could shoot longer loads "berger loads"
    My scope is a sightron 6-24x50, the mounts are the leupold dual dovetail mounts, would like to have nightforce rail and rings, but am unemployed.
    It seems like I will go out and try a new load and get some kinda good results and then come back and try it again and its worse then before.
    I have come to the conclusion its either the barrel or the scope or scope mounts, maybe the scope is moving slightly enough to throw me off????
    I have put quite a few rounds down the barrel, could the barrel be shot out or could I have gotten a bad barrel from the beginning????
    I had a gunsmith float the barrel. I am a month and half away from my deer season and am running out of time and am broke all the time anyways, but then who isn't????
    Does anyone have any suggestions
    my groups at 200 yards will fit in a 4 inch circle
     
  2. MTBULLET

    MTBULLET Well-Known Member

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    1. I shot out the factory rem bbl at 272 rounds, (remington said "to bad, it happens)
    2. re-bbl'd with PAC NOR
    3. after same frustrations you are having , I found the BERGER 168 VLD, haven't looked back yet, using h-1000 and fed. 215, loaded to max mag length
    4. deadly on elk,deer,antelope,coyotes,etc.
     

  3. tnshooter111

    tnshooter111 Well-Known Member

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    freebird63 [​IMG]
    Silver Member
    freebird63 [​IMG]
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    Freebird63. I know how you feel I got a sendero II in 300 RUM and it doesnt shoot up to par eather. It shot a little under a inch for the first 100 rounds and now best it will do is a little over a inch. (3 shot group at 100yds) I also have pressure signs with mid to light loads.
     
  4. bigbuck

    bigbuck Well-Known Member

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    Freebird , In my opinion you have something going on . Do you have a buddy that has a good scope that you could borrow and put on your rifle? That would eliminate the question about your scope ? I feel that your rifle will shoot alot less than 4 inches @ 200 yards . Don't give up . I would have bet money (I don't gamble) but I would have bet the house that the 208 Amax would have shot in your rifle . My saying goes if it want shoot a matchking or Amax it want shoot.... I havent seen a gun yet that want shoot one of these two bullets!

    BigBuck
     
  5. BobbyL

    BobbyL Well-Known Member

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    One thing that you need to do is move your load development farther out to 300 or 400 yards. This will tell you a lot more about whats going on but isnt far enough for wind to throw off what your doing. Most bullets take a while to go to sleep. The larger the caliber/the faster the MV and the larger the bullet the longer it takes. I have found load development at 100 to be absolutely useless.

    Seating depth can mean everything when it comes to doing load development. Check and recheck it. Try the bullets up close to the lands around .005-.010" off.

    How much are you cleaning the barrel? You can clean them to much. A large amount of guns like to be run dirty rather then clean.

    There is a lot of other things that can cause problems like these such as scopes mounts and stock problems. Sounds like you hit all these ones already...


    bobby
     
  6. freebird63

    freebird63 Well-Known Member

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    I have experimented with the bullet seating depth, I have tried all the magnum primers, retumbo, ramshot magnum, RL22, RL25, IMR 7828SSC, IMR 4350, US869, H1000, magpro-powders, have only used remington cases.
    It either has to be the barrel or the scope, I checked the mounts and they were tight. I talked to a gunsmith today and he said to bring it in next week and he will take a look at it. I have always had good luck with sightron scopes, but I know you can always get a lemon.
     
  7. RMulhern

    RMulhern Well-Known Member

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    My opinion and $5.00 will get you a cup of coffee in most places but as for the 300RUM....I think it's a POS!!
     
  8. SBriggs

    SBriggs Active Member

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    Freebird
    Have you read Jerry teo's article on load development on this site??

    It really shouldn't matter what powder , brass or primer you use you should be able to find a load wth any combination.

    I've used his method 3 different times while change powder and bullets and found a load with every differnet combination!

    I shoot a Rem 700p in 300 win mag and have had really good luck using jerry's system!!

    My best 3 shoot group at 200 yds which he recommend for all your load development was about 5/8"!

    You should be able to get a very consistent load for your rifle especially if you are using it for hunting in under 50 rounds! I've done it 3 times now!!!

    I started with nosler bullets but switch to hornady 178gr A-max and am now in the process of doing a load work up for the 208gr A-max.(After reading Brian Litz book)

    Just my 2 cents hope it helps
    SB
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2010
  9. freebird63

    freebird63 Well-Known Member

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    I just recently found that article and printed it out, I thought I was following it pretty well, but I guess I need to re-read it.
     
  10. justgoto

    justgoto Well-Known Member

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    Do you shoot well with a different rifle?
    I ask because you have this post that is almost the same exact problem.
    http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/head-scratcher-58323/
    I was thinking your scopes parallax needs adjusted for 200 yards.
    Or if you don't have an adjustment, you are not getting a proper sight picture.

    Good groups at 100 yards, then 4 inch groups at 200 yards seems to be more than not getting the load quite right.
     
  11. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes a factory rifle will just not shoot even if it has been bedded and floated.

    If this has been done, try a bright metal cleaning of the bore shoot 3 rounds and clean again,
    this will tell you if the barrel has potential. (Most of the time the barrels on ''Any" factory rifle
    are the problem).

    Some rifles like the lighter bullets and even we like the 180 to 210 grain bullets for the RUM
    some will not shoot them. also try the flat base bullets and if it likes them better the problem
    could be the crown. (Sometimes the factory does a terrible job on the crown).

    Don't give up on it because it should shoot better than 4" at 200 yards, But to expect a 1/2
    MOA from a factory rifle is a lot.

    So start over from the beginning. Check the bedding, floating of the barrel to make sure it's not
    touching during firing,check the bases and rings,even change scopes if you have one, clean
    the barrel back to bare metal and only shoot 3 rounds and clean(Some times the barrel will
    foul and not shoot very well) This will tell you which load combo it likes the best.

    If you see a load that has promise then you can tweak it for best accuracy by adjusting the powder weight and the bullet seating depth.

    If nothing works then it may be time for a custom barrel.

    Good luck.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  12. bigbuck

    bigbuck Well-Known Member

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    Fore what it's worth . A few years ago dad and I had a Ruger model -77 in a 22-250 cal. We loaded severl different bullets with different brands of powder , Just like what you've done. Dad got upset and jerked the scope off and sent the so called BAD gun back to Ruger. He told them that the barrel was a peace of crap. They installed a new varmint fat barrel just like the one that it was wearing when we sent it to them. So, we put the scope back on it and it still wouldn't shoot with the brand new barrel. took the wonderful scope off of it and put another one on and it was stacking bullets like 22-250's do !! It was a lesson learned that want be forgotten.

    I know sightron makes a very very good scope but I would just have to know if it's the scope or not. After all you've done just about eveything else .

    Barrel ?
    or
    scope?

    BigBuck
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
  13. freebird63

    freebird63 Well-Known Member

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    I did take the scope off yesterday, 2 screws on the scope mount base were a little lose, but am not sure its enough to make a difference?? My scope mounting system is the leupold dual dovetail mount. I want to get a nightforce rail and rings, but at $114 for the rail and $152 for the rings, thats going to have to wait. I am going to try a couple other things out tomorrow morning, I try to do most of my shooting in the morning because after 10am the desert starts to heat up fast. If its still not showing any signs of improvement I am taking it to a gunsmith on monday, he said he would take a look at it and if he couldn't see anything wrong with the barrel he had some different mounts and scope he would let me barrow to see if that was the problem.
    After re-reading Jerry's article thats pretty much how I have been loading my rounds.
    I really do appreciate everyones input here, its all very good information and will be putting it to use tomorrow. So wish me luck, I will report back on my progress.
    Chuck
     
  14. bigbuck

    bigbuck Well-Known Member

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    Good luck freebird63, looking forward to the day you get it figured out and hopefully some target pics to follow pretty soon:)

    BigBuck