Level of accuracy for LR hunting rifle

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by jon12, May 23, 2004.

  1. jon12

    jon12 Well-Known Member

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    I know alot of yall hunt at long range, and alot of yall own extremely accurate rifles, but i just wanted to see what kind of accuacy yall felt was really necesary for a LR hunting rifle.

    To me, a solid 1 MOA rifle that will always put shots in an inch at 100 yards is pretty dang good. That means that the bullet will hit no more than 1/2 inch from your point of zero at 100 and theoretically no more than 1 inch at 200, 1.5 inches at 300, 2 inches at 400, and 2.5 inches at 500. I realize that a one inch at 100 yards gun doesnt necisarily translate to a 5 inch at 500 yard gun, but even if its more like a 6, 8, or even 10 inch gun at 500 yards meaning that the bullet will hit no more than 3, 4 or even 5 inches from your point of zero at that distance, which seems fine for putting a bullet somewhere in a roughly 12 inch diameter vital area of a big whitetail buck at 500 yards, which to me seems like a long shot for even serious LR hunters.

    Do yall really think these tack driving one hole guns are necisary or advantageous for LR hunting, or is that tiny edge in inherent accuracy of the rifle lost in the other variables of field shooting conditions? Do you think it gives you more room for error when shooting at a big buck in field conditions 500 yards away or just looks good on paper?

    Let me know what yall think, im interested to see what a bunch of LR hunters consider necisary for shooting game at lkong distance.

    Thanks.
     
  2. bigsal5353

    bigsal5353 Well-Known Member

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    good question... im very knew too long range hunting and shooting but if i had to give an answer to that question i dont think that people would spend 3 or 4 grand on a rifle if it didnt shoot better than 5 or 6 hundred dollar savage or remington... the custom one hole shooters definetly make a difference
     

  3. Holmes

    Holmes Well-Known Member

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    I use 100 metres for load development but I don't consider a load for LR work until I have run it through the paces at 300 metres.

    At this distance, I require the load/rifle to group regularly at 1.5". My rifle and loads will certainly shoot tighter than that on occasion, but it cannot be depended upon. It must hit that 1.5" mark 9 of 10 times from my bipod and mat.

    My rifle is a 14# 25/06 with a 27.5" Lilja so it's really an easy arm to shoot accurately. The Jewell trigger certainly helps also!

    Take care.

    ~Holmes
     
  4. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk Well-Known Member

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    Holmes, what pound pull do you have on that Jewell?
     
  5. Holmes

    Holmes Well-Known Member

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    I have it set at 16 oz.

    Quite honestly, the Jewell brought more consistency to my groups than any other modification I've done.

    I seem to be rather trigger sensitive. My LR 22 rimfire has a 2# trigger and even my pre-64 M70 in 375 H&H has a 2.5# pull.

    The light pull on the M700 25/06 is certainly not a field trigger that can be handed off casually to another shooter, but I really prefer it for shooting from the prone.

    Cheers.

    ~Holmes
     
  6. COBrad

    COBrad Well-Known Member

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    Long range is pretty subjective, so I suppose accuracy requirements are as well. For big game I personally consider it necessary for a long range rifle, 5-600 yds, to consistently shoot at least 1 moa, and more importantly for me, the shooter, to consistently shoot to at least 1 moa for shooting beyond 300 yds. I use a laser range finder and an anemometer, but it is still entirely possible that my measurements, aim, follow through, etc may be off enough that I won't shoot 1 moa. In that case, there is some small margin of error available, theoretically as much as 1 moa out to 500 yds. My idea of long range keeps getting a little farther, but for me it is really about ranges I can consistently hit at, within the necessary parameters for the game I am hunting, with a sporter weight rifle of 6.5-8.5 lbs, or my "heavy" varmint rifle of 10.5 lbs, fired from a bipod. I try to develop loads under 1 moa even for my big game rifles. My .300 will shoot .5 with SMK's. My varmint rifles have to shoot at least .5 moa if they are going to stay in my rack. I strive to shoot to .25 moa with all my rifles, and with my most accurate rifles sometimes I actually do. My groups are pretty consistently .3-.75 depending on the rifle, but the idea is, aim small, miss small, and you need an accurate rifle to do that. And there's my $.02 worth.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    I like what Holmes and Brad had to say and think the same, BigSal makes a good point too.

    The higher the rifles precision and repeatability is the higher chances you have in adverse conditions or at longer range... margin of error you have.

    I've got a rifle that punches tiny little groups, shoots big heavy high BC bullets and undoubtedly just increased my range as a result, just like that.

    If the rifle is capable of precision along the lines of .3 MOA or better, and my accuracy with it holds .75 MOA to 500 yards and 1.0 MOA to 1000 yards in fair conditions I'll probably be happy.

    My 300 Ultra's precision is better than .7 MOA, but "I" can't hold accuracy to 1 MOA at 1000 with it like that.

    Looking good on paper means nothing to me other than I'm getting where I wanting to go with the rifle's precision. If I can put POI at POA at what ever range I'm shooting, my end goal, that makes me truely happy!

    If one day I'm POI is at POA at 500, 700 and 900 yards, then the next day it's 6" low at 700 and 5" low at 900... that's BS! If the rifle shot no more than .3 MOA at least I wouldn't be having to deal with that end of it, but a predictable POI is my utmost concern. Without lots of practice with one load, you simply don't know what it will do over time and can't have any true amount of confidence in yourself in the end.

    So, is the tack driving rig a necessity for LR hunting? Ultimately it depends on the range, and the target size. A factory rifle can easily be precise enough to take any size game at 500 yards in most cases. How well one can shoot it in the field is quite another question though. Beyond 500 yards things really start to stack up against you in a hurry, and no advantage is overlooked. [​IMG]
     
  8. COBrad

    COBrad Well-Known Member

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    With this thread in mind, I went out and did a little shooting at 456 yds with my 22-250 tonight. I was shooting from a bipod down a wide draw and the wind was blowing every which way, but prevailing conditions were 4-7 mph with gusts to 10+, blowing from directly at me to roughly 9 o'clock. Two groups of three shots were as follows: #1- 3.67" with furthest POI 3.5" from POA. #2- 4.25 with furthest POI 2.25 from POA. Plenty good for coyote, with 3 of the shots definitely minute of prairie dog [​IMG] . Now, in steadier conditions this rifle consistently shoots in the mid .3's at 100 yds, and I have shot groups in the neighborhood of .4 moa at 481 yds. Would a rifle capable of only 1 moa have shot 3 times as large groups? Probably. The point that I got from this is that it takes a lot of practice, at longer ranges, and especially in varying conditions, for me to learn how my rifle and myself shoot under field conditions, so I know where my limits are. In calm conditions with this rifle I think I would shoot at prairie dogs out to 600 yds. Under todays conditions I think that I was about maxed at 456.

    [ 05-24-2004: Message edited by: COBrad ]
     
  9. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    More times than not, your groups will at least double in MOA between 100-1000 yards. That is for very experianced 1000 yard shooters. If a rifle is capable of 1 MOA at 1K or 10" between shooter error and bad elements it will most likely be 2 MOA or 20" at 1k. I prefer a concistent .25 MOA rifle. It will generally deliver between .5 and .75 MOA at 1K and that is decent for 1K hunting. The POI will almost always change a litte from day to day at 1K so it is very important to have a good .5 MOA shooting rifle at 1k.

    Regards