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Long Range Hunting & Shooting
Lazz 7.21 (.284) Firebird 162-168gr to 1000Y
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<blockquote data-quote="greenejc" data-source="post: 1705068" data-attributes="member: 60453"><p>I just looked at the Taylor KO calculator. The 6.5 Creedmoor gets about 2350ftlbs at the muzzle, has a momentum of 55, and a TKO of 14 with a 140 grain bullet, velocity of 2750fps at the muzzle. The mopey, old-hat 30-06 has 3020ftlbs at the muzzle, a momentum of about 70, and a TKO of 21, with a muzzle velocity of 2750fps. The -06 has about 15 to 20% more weight, a larger foot-print, and greater mass to keep it in a straight-line penetration of game. I hits more than 30% harder, and continues to penetrate better and hit harder at any distance, due to its greater mass. This is simple physics. My Whelen, with 225 grain Sierras at about that velocity(chronographed 10 feet from the muzzle) hits a lot harder, and is still supersonic at 1,000 yards at 8,000ft. With the Speer Hotcor, at around 2675fps(average) it has 3900+ ftlbs a momentum of 90+ and a TKO of around 34 or 35. It also has a foot-print that's about double the .264, which means it will deliver that energy much more efficiently. Again, that's just physics. And yes, the .260 Rem has an edge on the Creedmoor in velocity. Look in any reloading manual. Given a hunt for elk, moose or bear, I'd use a .30cal or above over any 6.5 unless I was being paid to hunt with one. And then, I'd want a good friend who can shoot to back me up with a more effective caliber because I hate having to trail game. And even perfect placement on an elk at distance with a medium-small caliber can lead to blood-trailing. Also, bigger bullets leave larger exit wounds at distance(30 cal. Winmag, 30-06, 7.84 Warbird, etc.), 8mm, 338, 358 cals, which result with broken bones, complete pass through, larger exit wounds and better blood trails, if needed, are just better at distance. It isn't about flatter trajectory. Its about killing power, and humane killing of game. These calibers just have better effect at distance, regardless of their trajectory. Remember, buffalo were killed with things like the 45-90/45-100 with 500 grain bullets at ranges beyond 500-600 yards routinely in the 1870's, with one-shot drops, and the trajectory was like a rainbow. It isn't the flat trajectory that kills. Its what the projectile can do when it hits the target. All the Lazzeronis are very good at taking game at distance. The 6.5s are marginal, simply due to caliber and bullet mass. Lets just say I wouldn't want to face a charging grizzley with one, while I wouldn't feel totally under-gunned with a 30-06 and 200 grain bullets. I'd still rather have the Whelen with 250 grain Speers, though.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="greenejc, post: 1705068, member: 60453"] I just looked at the Taylor KO calculator. The 6.5 Creedmoor gets about 2350ftlbs at the muzzle, has a momentum of 55, and a TKO of 14 with a 140 grain bullet, velocity of 2750fps at the muzzle. The mopey, old-hat 30-06 has 3020ftlbs at the muzzle, a momentum of about 70, and a TKO of 21, with a muzzle velocity of 2750fps. The -06 has about 15 to 20% more weight, a larger foot-print, and greater mass to keep it in a straight-line penetration of game. I hits more than 30% harder, and continues to penetrate better and hit harder at any distance, due to its greater mass. This is simple physics. My Whelen, with 225 grain Sierras at about that velocity(chronographed 10 feet from the muzzle) hits a lot harder, and is still supersonic at 1,000 yards at 8,000ft. With the Speer Hotcor, at around 2675fps(average) it has 3900+ ftlbs a momentum of 90+ and a TKO of around 34 or 35. It also has a foot-print that's about double the .264, which means it will deliver that energy much more efficiently. Again, that's just physics. And yes, the .260 Rem has an edge on the Creedmoor in velocity. Look in any reloading manual. Given a hunt for elk, moose or bear, I'd use a .30cal or above over any 6.5 unless I was being paid to hunt with one. And then, I'd want a good friend who can shoot to back me up with a more effective caliber because I hate having to trail game. And even perfect placement on an elk at distance with a medium-small caliber can lead to blood-trailing. Also, bigger bullets leave larger exit wounds at distance(30 cal. Winmag, 30-06, 7.84 Warbird, etc.), 8mm, 338, 358 cals, which result with broken bones, complete pass through, larger exit wounds and better blood trails, if needed, are just better at distance. It isn't about flatter trajectory. Its about killing power, and humane killing of game. These calibers just have better effect at distance, regardless of their trajectory. Remember, buffalo were killed with things like the 45-90/45-100 with 500 grain bullets at ranges beyond 500-600 yards routinely in the 1870's, with one-shot drops, and the trajectory was like a rainbow. It isn't the flat trajectory that kills. Its what the projectile can do when it hits the target. All the Lazzeronis are very good at taking game at distance. The 6.5s are marginal, simply due to caliber and bullet mass. Lets just say I wouldn't want to face a charging grizzley with one, while I wouldn't feel totally under-gunned with a 30-06 and 200 grain bullets. I'd still rather have the Whelen with 250 grain Speers, though. [/QUOTE]
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Lazz 7.21 (.284) Firebird 162-168gr to 1000Y
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