Kirby Allen’s “no load development” load development method.

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by WildcatB, Sep 25, 2009.

  1. WildcatB

    WildcatB Well-Known Member

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    After reading this thread: Load development methods...

    I decided to try it.

    [​IMG]

    66 gains of magpro,
    cci mag primer,
    Remington case,
    Coal: 2.856
    169.5g Wildcat 270 bullets
    270 wsm.

    Just like he described in his original post, I shot loads of increasing increments (1/2 grain) until I got a slightly sticky bolt – this happened at 68 grains. I then backed off 2 grains to 66 grains and loaded three. The above group is those 3 at 100 yards.

    This is also the best group I’ve ever shot. I got lucky – but I’ll take it.

    I couldn’t be happier. Thanks Kirby. Your method saved me lots of time, powder, and bullets.


    Paul
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2009
  2. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

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    "Just like he described in his original post, I shot loads of increasing increments (1/2 grain) until I got a lightly sticky bolt – this happened at 68 grains. I then backed off 2 grains to 66 grains and loaded three."

    I didn't see his original post; did he suggest that 2 grains below stickly bolts would shoot well?

    If so, did he mention that 2 grains would be lot more change for small cartridges than larger ones?
     

  3. dewiseman

    dewiseman Well-Known Member

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    Where can we find his article? It isn't coming up in a search here.
     
  4. Bud Martin

    Bud Martin Well-Known Member

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    When you can do that 8 or 10 times in a row you will be assured you have something until then it is just as likely and more probable you had three fliers that landed in the same place. I have a new rifle I just had built that will shoot a group like that about 3 out of 50 shots, the rest of the time it would make a better high lift jack handle.
     
  5. WildcatB

    WildcatB Well-Known Member

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  6. Autorotate

    Autorotate Well-Known Member

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    Nice group Paul. I'd take three fliers in a row like that any day of the week!
     
  7. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    Kirby's 'method' amounts to nothing more than a pet load with limited conditions set..
    It's not development, and couldn't be imagined so with the majority of cartridges the rest of us shoot.

    Ya know,, you build a gun and work with it finding that it shoots good enough -a couple grains under excess. You build a few more & notice that it's loosely the same. WA-LA, Nothing to it(as though such a rule of thumb defines the cosmos)..
    Then you set something stupid a distance out back for customers to shoot at. You dial in every gun on the rack and slide a box of 'magic ammo' under each.
    Fools come into the shop, desperate to hit stupid things way way out there.
    They couldn't be happier with such a delusion..
    It's the very foundation of benchrest, to do something deluded as an achievement, with as little effort as possible.........
     
  8. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

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    Well, with no idea of what Mr. Allen suggests, I have found that, contrary to most "load down for better accuracy" ideas, most of my rifles shoot best when loaded hot. I attribute it at least partially to a better, more consistant burn when the load is in the proper pressure/burn rate range.

    But, statistally, any three or even five closely punched shots is likely to be a freak incidence until it's proven otherwise, by a LOT more shots! And averaging of group sizes is deceptive, it only serves as self deception, thinking about our extra large groups.

    All that really counts is the largest groups because that's all the shooter can depend on when he pulls a trigger, the "average" group means nothing for an individual shot. I haven't averaged any rifle's groups since I realized that truth some 30+ years ago.
     
  9. loaders_loft

    loaders_loft Well-Known Member

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    Its good to see at least one positive minded response to this thread. The guy found a nice load and posted it with the background on how he got there.

    Why all the negativity? Its sad, really.

    Good job, by the way.:D

    L_L
     
  10. 3006savage

    3006savage Well-Known Member

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    Just guessing here but I'll bet the no load development technique works a lot better in high end custom guns than it does in my factory rifles. One thing is for sure it seems to have been the ticket for Paul. Nice shooting.
     
  11. MN Hunter

    MN Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Nice group. Looks like you are off to a good start. I followed Kirby's procedure for my new Remington Sendero 300 win mag. It got me surprisingly close in a relative short period of time. My groups aren't quite as tight as your picture but close. Right now I'm working up some loads to tweak it a little more.
    Maybe the bitter responses are that some of the mystery has been taken away.
    My thoughts - use what works for you.
     
  12. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    The odds that three consecutive shots that land close together are "Fliers" is less than 2%. Conversely the odds that the group is meaning full (i.e that there are causative factors such as correct powder and good bullet) is 98%.

    It is erroneous to believe that the exact group size is repetitive but it is likely that the size will be similar.

    Same rifle, same load different days. 130 grain HP RBBT Wildcat bulllet.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  13. Krakkon

    Krakkon Well-Known Member

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    So with this method you would take a load manual like Nosler and choose the powder they say is the most accurate tested, start at the top load range and work up in .5 increments?
     
  14. loaders_loft

    loaders_loft Well-Known Member

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    i don't think you should start at the top load range. Start at the min or mid load range but not the top...