Kirby, a question on your magnum pistol

[7ultra]

Kirby,
I am in the process of putting together a hunting pistol. I'm pretty much set on an Encore now, but I remember a while back reading that you had an XP-100 chambered in a 6.5 WSM. I was just wondering about the specifics on that gun, like weight, is it breaked, how long is the barrel, and how is the recoil. Secondly, how do you think a 7mm RSUM or WSM would do in an Encore with a 15" heavy bull (Crown at .995) barrel with an integrated break. Just wondering if this combo would be a manageable LR pistol rig. Thanks in advance.

 

[Ernie]

7,
Not Kirby by any means.
But, both of us have realized that a WSM or Short action Lazz case is not the way to go with the Encore. Head size being larger just stresses the break-open action to the point that there is a lot of frame flexing (shortened case life). In 7mm something like a 280 AI would end up getting you more or equal MV's with longer case life than you could get out of a 7WSM.

 

[Fiftydriver]

7Ultra,

XP is right on the money with his reply. If you need long range handgun hunting advise, SScoyote and XPhunter are THE two to talk with.

This summer they will be going for the one mile market with specialty built XP-100s in 7mm bore. I believe Xphunters is the 7mm WSM while I am building Sscoyotes XP-100 chambered for the 7mm-270 WSM wildcat. Many may ask why we would use this wildcat. Simple answer, using Norma 270 WSM brass for its quality(the 7mm WSM is 0.030" longer in headspace length).

My 6.5mm WSM is built on a 15" Lilja 1-8" twist barrel and fitted with a Holland QD brake. The muzzle diameter is .700" and is a straight taper shape.

It wears a Burris 2.5-7x handgun scope and has a Fajen laminated stock which I fitted with my own V-Block bedding system. Extremely accurate handgun. Will average in the .3"s and .4"s at 100 yards.

I do not know the exact weight of the handgun, probably in the 4 lb range or slightly more.

Recoil is less then my 221 Fireball XP-100 handguns, as far as felt recoil and muzzle jump. The blast is certainly more.

Performance wise, I will be testing some of the Wildcat 142 gr ULDs here very soon. I used the 120 gr Ballistic Tip this last hunting season loaded to 3050 fps and this load cleanly harvested a big mule deer doe at +330 yards with a single shot breaking both shoulders.

With the proper bullet, these hadnguns are easily capable of consistant hits out to 1000 yards. The problem is optical power. Traditional handguns scopes are not that great. The Burris 3-12 is about the best conventional handgun scope for longer range shooting. For serious work, you will need a converted rifle scope.

As far as the Encore goes, forget it with the WSM class of rounds. I do not even recommend it with the standard belted magnum round.

I have a beautiful Virgin Valley 15" Encore barrel built on a Lilja 1-9" 7mm barrel in stainless steel. I believe the muzzle diameter is in the .800-.825" range. The barrel is a tack driver, 3/8" groups is easy to get with this Encore.

It is chambered for the very short and fat 7.21 Tomahawk from Lazzeroni.

Only problem, you will get two firings per case, MAX. At +$2.00 per case, this is not acceptible. So it sits in the gun safe. I should sell it but I just can not ethically bring myself to pass it on to someone else.

Go with the 280 AI as XP stated. This will provide the most performance for the bang. Another option would be the 280 JDJ which is een higher performing then the 280 AI but much more involved as far as forming cases go. It also uses the '06 case size which is the largest I recommend for the Encore handgun.

Good shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[7ultra]

Roger that,
Thanks Fifty and XP, your advice is much appreciated. I think I will stick to the plan, 280 AI sounds good. Who knows, maybe after noodling around with this Encore I'll give you a call Kirby about making an XP-100. Thanks again guys.

 

[7ultra]

Hey, quick question sort of off topic. What do you guys use for scopes on your pistols? So far the highest magnification I have found was the Burris 3-12 I believe. Are there any other makers/designs that you guys are using?

 

[Ernie]

I have about 4 of the 3-12 LER's with BP reticle. This is the best handgun hunting and LR factory scope IMO coupled with Exbal and a Chronograph.
The LR LER is by purchasing a 36x Leupold BR "D" nad let Wally Siebert convert itinto a 20x LER scope.
Other LR bench options are using regular riflescopes (cautiously).
If you are interested in the longer ranges with Specialty pistols consider coming to our SHOTS seminar in May 26-28, near Pueblo, CO.
The Outdoor Channel will also be there filming the clinic.
SHOTS=Specialty Handgun Outdoorsman's Tactical Seminar

 

[Fiftydriver]

I use Burris on my handcannons, for shooting out to 300 yards or a bit farther, the 2.5-7 is a great scope. For longer shooting ranges or varminting, I agree with XP that the 3-12 is very hard to beat for an out of the box scope.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[brian b]

I am a huge Leupold fan ,but there pistol scopes suck. I agree with Fiftydriver on the 2.5x7 Burris (kicked myself many times for selling it)
B

 

[Bob S.]

how is the eye relief on the burris? I read somewhere that it was too long. I have never looked through one so don't have a clue.

 

[sscoyote]

High power optics for the L-R Handguns are definitely a problem, but Burris has come close with the 3-12X, but the eye relief is critical, and too long. I'm not sure what it is exactly-- Burris website has it, no doubt, but it's too long for me (and XP) when shooting prone afield (it should've been an IER instead. Off the bench it's fine. U could go with a Ken Farrell or Richard Nears extension bases but it hasn't helped us much yet-- maybe an inch. I have a 4.5-14X Leupold PR LR scope on my Savage Striker .243 WSSM, but with the 87 V-Max, and 105 A-Max it still taps me in the forehead some with a full FOV. If u use a rear grip stock tho there's no question that the Burris would work great from all field shooting positions. Both XP and i will probably be using the 36X BR Siebert LER conversion (20x @ LER) for the 1 mile stuff, BUT the eye relief/ FOV is extremely critical with that scope as i saw on XP's awhile back. For stationary shooting from a bench it's fine, but for field work-- not for me. We've been trying to put the bug in some companies ears such as Burris and Nightforce to no avail so far. I have to admit tho the BUrris ain't bad, as this long-range coyote would certainly attest to if he could--

www.perry-systems.com/what_others_have_to_say.htm#Steve

 

[Fiftydriver]

Cowboy,

Eye relief can be a real problem using a center grip handgun with todays handgun scopes. They are mostly set up to be used with a rear grip traditional handgun such as a revolver or a T/C Contender or Encore.

Because of this, many scopes are pretty much unusible with the center grip XP-100 with a traditional scope mounting position.

I have found the 2.5-7 Burris to be the best for all around use on an XP-100 center grip due to its eye relief. The only area I have found that it is a bit to long is when shooting in an extreme prone position.

I also have relatively long arms so someone with shorter arms may have more problems. Still this is the best scope I have found for general big game hunting with the center grip handguns.

The 3-12 Burris is vastly superior for longer range shooting but you do give up some eye relief window with the higher power scope. For long range hunting though, this is not as critical as shots are seldom hurried so you can get settled into the handgun better.

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Ernie]

Farrel's picatinny mount can be had with 2 inches extending from the front of the action (he could actually make it longer). This would solve any problems brought on by the 3-12 when shooting prone. I have one of Farrel's extended mounts now, but they had not been made yet when Steve & competed @ ITRC. Richard's mounts are sleeker looking and his extends also, but only a inch beyond the front of the action. Both Ken & Richard and been very helpful to anyone using the XP or the H-S pistol (same hole design as the XP).