I've gone through my first two 4 oz. bottles of KG-1 and KG-12 and these products kick butt. KG-1 is the best carbon/powder fouling cleaner I've used to date, and I'm not green behind the ears. KG-12 is a potent copper removing product. I use it following the KG-1 product. Neither product is harmful to the bore, like the ammonia-based copper removing solutions can be if left in the bore too long. I know this from first hand experience with the ammonia based solutions. Rotted out one chrome moly bore and even inflicted some damage on a stainless Lilja barrel with the Barnes CR10 solution in years gone by. Barnes initial labeling on this product when neglected to inform the user that the product should be removed from the bore within 15 minutes - maximum. All the instruction on the bottle said back then was that the product was completely safe to gun barrel steel. Well I learned that was bogus the hard way. If you need to clean your bores quickly, I can in good conscience give these two KG products the thumbs up. Over the past two weeks I've been cleaning my bores repetitively during the process of applying and treating the bores with Gun Juice. By the way, the Gun Juice drastically reduces copper fouling. You can shoot more shots with less fouling and clean the bores much more quickly. Back to KG-1 & KG-12. In order to apply the Gun Juice, I clean the bore down to bare steel with KG-1 followed by KG-12 followed by application Gun Juice, shoot once - reclean - Gun Juice, shoot once - reclean - Gun Juice, etc., repeating the cleaning and shooting cycle 20 times in stainless barrels. I've cleaned my bores on 4 different rifle barrels about 90 times during the past two weeks while applying the Gun Juice. So it's with confidence that I recommend the KG-1 and KG-12 products. FYI, I am not affiliated with KG products in any way. I restocked my supply this week and ordered the products from Midway. These products can be shipped by US mail, which is important if you live in Alaska, whereas some cleaning solutions can not be shipped US Postal Service. Cheers!