Kestrel 4500 Atrag?

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by curiousaussie, Mar 29, 2011.

  1. curiousaussie

    curiousaussie Active Member

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    Dec 22, 2008
    G'day,

    Does anyone have any experience or opinions about the new Kestrel 4500 with Atrag ballistics program included?

    Cheers,

    Matt
     
  2. gbmaryland

    gbmaryland Member

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    Jul 15, 2011
    Here is the story...

    Ok,

    The Kestrel 4500NV has been around for awhile now. The Horus ATRAG feature is the new addition.

    It DOES appear to work, BUT there are issues.

    The first issue is that Kestrel (Neilsen-Kellerman) doesn't have a currently working BlueTooth enabled version of their configuration / real time software on their support sight. (In fact, the unit doesn't COME with ANY software [Horus or Kestrel]!)

    The second issue is that it doesn't have the Horus "Gun Library" software that lets you use a computer to update the device via BlueTooth.

    If you call Neilsen-Kellerman, they tell you to call Horus, and if you call Horus, the tell you to call Neilsen-Kellerman.

    So what this means: If you want to read the atomospheric data or configure the Kestrel part of the device, you have to call Kestrel and gain access to a non-published version of their software. If you want to edit the firearms list (libraries) in the ATRAG features of the Kestrel 4500NV ATAG BT, you need to get that software from Horus Vision. [By default it comes with the ability for 7 firearms, but is supposed to be able to hold 50... if you use the Horus "Gun Library" software.

    The problem: The unit doesn't come with software to support the BlueTooth functionality.

    I've called Horus 5 times over the last several days and I haven't heard back from "Larry."

    Overall, this would be a great product IF their two companies HAD worked together to provide users with the software packages they needed from the start. Perferably a combined peice of software specifically for the device.

    As of this writing NEITHER company has software posted on their website to support this product directly.

    They charge ALOT of money for the features, and they are not delivering.

    The unit DOES work well, BUT if you are purchasing this specific model you are looking for a Ferrari, but you get a Pinto. (From a support and documention perspective....)
     

  3. joseph

    joseph Well-Known Member

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    I have the Kestral 3500 "AND" a CUSTOM TURRET that is dead nuts accurate out to 900 yds. which is beyond what my 6mm Norma BR. will kill a deer at. With my set up and my Laser Rangefinder I don't need all those fancy programs. :D

    joseph
     
  4. gbmaryland

    gbmaryland Member

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    Jul 15, 2011
    Well,

    I've gotan 800m rifle in 308, a 1200 yard rifle in 300WM, and a close in gun in 375 for 600 yards...

    Then there are the rifles with night vision and thermal optics.

    Then I've got about 3 loads for each.

    So it's pretty nice to be able to have that at your finger tips with your Kestrel is figuring out the firing solution for the turrets.

    Additionally, the turns are specific for altitude and bullet. ...at least the ones I've seen.
     
  5. joseph

    joseph Well-Known Member

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    Since my custom turret only goes to 900 yds. I need to do this below, but if I wasn't shooting a "POPGUN" my custom turret would adjust to a much farther range.

    I adjust my clicks for 1,000 yds. which is 108 1/4 moa clicks & 1 click left for the spin of the bullet. This puts me dead center of the blue on a 1,000 yd. official bench rest target. When the humidity changes there is only one click up or down depending. This is only 2.5 inches. When shooting less than 10" groups at 1,000 yds. you are still in the kill zone on an antelope size animal. Will your "dope" help to kill it any better especially if it keeps moving and stoping moving and stoping?

    Just wondering?

    joseph

    PS: A custom turret makes it much easier and faster to get your shot off. That is why so many outfits are selling these caliber spacific systems incorporated into their scopes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
  6. gbmaryland

    gbmaryland Member

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    I'm rarely shooting at moving targets.

    The few times I have to do that are from a helicopter. Then it's more Kentucky windage...
     
  7. gbmaryland

    gbmaryland Member

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    I will state one thing... it's REALLY useful to have software to give you basic senarios as what normal drog at given altitudes and such will be.

    In so far as the 4500NV BT with ATRAG... I think that you are better off purchasing an app for your iPhone or iPad (or for that matter prucahsing an iPad), then purchasing an unsupported product from the manufacturer... (Horus Vision and Kestrel [Neilsen-Kellerman]).

    It's a very expensive item, it does work, but there is NO support for it over the 4500 Kestrel. In fact, to be honest, NK really hasn't updated the public versions of their 4500 / 4500NV software for some time.

    So I can't recommend putting the cash for a 4500NV BT with ATRAG or the 4500NV with ATRAG.
     
  8. gbmaryland

    gbmaryland Member

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    BTW:

    Just to report why the Gun Library software is import...

    Not only does it report to allow you add more than 5 guns (50), but it allows you to pre-program for:

    Horus Specifications
    Gun:
    • Active Targets
      • A through E (1 to 5)
    • Target Range (TR)
      • 25 to 4000 yards
      • 23 to 3658 meters
    • Wind Direction (WD)
      • 1 to 12 o'clock
      • 0 to 360 degrees
    • Wind Speed (WS1 or WS2)
      • 0 to 50 mph
      • 0 to 22 m/s
      • 0 to 80 km/h
      • 0 to 73 fps
      • 0 to 43 knots
    • Direction of Fire (DoF)
      • 1 to 12 o'clock
      • 0 to 360 degrees
    • Inclination Angle (Ideg)
      • 0 to 60 degrees
    • Inclination Cosine (Icos)
      • 1.000 to 0.500
    • Target Speed TS
      • 0 to 50 mph
      • 0 to 22 m/s
      • 0 to 80 km/h
      • 0 to 73 fps
      • 0 to 43 knots
    • Target Direction of Movement (TD)
      • Left to Right OR Right to Left
    Target:
    • Name Characters
      • 0 through 9; A-Z; a-z; -+/.&* and space
    • Muzzle Velocity (MV)
      • 300 to 4500 fps
      • 91 to 1372 m/s
    • Ballistic Coefficient (BC)
      • 0.100 to 2.000
    • Bullet Weight (BW)
      • 10 to 1500 grains
      • 0.6 to 97.2 grams
    • Bullet Diameter (BD)
      • 0.10 to 1.00 inches
      • 2.54 to 25.40 mm
    • Zero Range (ZR)
      • 25 to 1000 yards
      • 23 to 914 meters
    • Bore Height (BH)
      • 0.10 to 5.00 inches
      • 0.25 to 12.70 cm
    • Rifling Twist (RT)
      • 1.00 to 36.00 inches/revolution
      • 2.54 to 91.44 cm/revolution
    • Twist Direction (RTd)
      • Left OR Right
    • Rifling Click
      • 1 to 10 /mil
      • 1 to 10 /tmoa
      • 1 to 10 /smoa (smoa removed from code higher than v2042)
    Environment:
    • Latitude (Lat)
      • 90S to 90N degrees
    • Temperature (Temp)
      • -50 to 140 °F
      • -46 to 60 °C
    • Station Pressure (SP)
      • 12.00 to 32.00 inHg
      • 406.4 to 1083.6 mb
      • 406.4 to 1083.6 hPa
      • 5.89 to 15.72 psi
    • Relative Humidity (RH)
      • 1 to 100 %RH
    • Computed Density Altitude (Dalt)
      • -10732 to 32767 feet
      • -3271 to 9987 meters
    • Coriolis (Coriol)
      • Yes OR No
    I would have to say that if you are using the serial cradle or the Blue Tooth communications options, getting all of this information in would be nice, and very nice to have backed up.

    Now, the Kestrel should be providing a lot of the information you'd need in that list, but there is alot it's not providing.
     
  9. swandme

    swandme Member

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    The Unit is a great piece of equipment

    I have not tried to connect to my Mac yet but as a stand alone it is awasome


    Everything you need to know and more.

    I will update in a few days on the other SW


    This meter along with my Steiner 10x50 LRF Bino's is a great combo
     
  10. timmyatnop

    timmyatnop Well-Known Member

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    I would like some more info on it. How well it work say if u only had one long range gun.
     
  11. swandme

    swandme Member

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    If you only have one long range gun I know a cure for that.

    I would recommend taking some 338 or 30 cal or 6.5 pills and go shopping in the morning .

    :)

    Weather 1 or 10 even with out a computer it will work great.

    I have been working with Ballistic software and devices for over 20 years and have tried just about every device and combination of devices.
    I shoot 3 gun and long range competition and have hunted in Wyoming at some 700 to 900 yard shots.

    Last fall one of our guys, " Buzzy " took a Bull Elk @ 1111 Yards with witnesses to prove it and Last fall my Team Mate Jake & I won the 100 to 500 meter Match at Ft. McCoy with reactive Body Size targets and took second on Sun out to 1000 meters.

    We have a 1000 yard range we can do development on at our disposal and we have learned a lot over the last 20 + years and have even more to learn over the next 20.
     
  12. gbmaryland

    gbmaryland Member

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    Jul 15, 2011
    Fine.


    The issue is more a matter of the type of rounds you plan to shoot.

    Me, I've got 10,000 or so rounds, hand loaded, and chronoed. So for special purposes, and so not. So I want to be able to say "Today I'm taking these three batches of round to the range an see how hitting paper at 1000 yards is going to work."

    So Gun Loader should let me preset this stuff.

    I'm taking:

    300WM
    375 H&H
    308Win
    5.56x45NATO

    x 2 to 4 loads each.

    So that up to 20 combinations.... and at THAT point gun loader is important. Even if it is still kind crappy.

    GB
     
  13. swandme

    swandme Member

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    Sep 27, 2011
    Yes I can see where the computer input is a big plus I hope to try it Thus.

    I will post the details
     
  14. Villreinjeger

    Villreinjeger Well-Known Member

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    May 19, 2011
    I was about to order the 4500NV from

    http://www.kestrelmeters.com/collections/frontpage/products/kestrel-4500-horus-atrag-ballistics-1

    however I read what Jay from OR wrote in his review about input data and adjustments further down on the page..:

    Doesn't Atrag change the POI due to the change in condtions from sighting in to current shooting conditions? If you sight in at 10 F and shoot at 40 F, getting a higher MV, doesn't the program figure out that given that you plot in the correct veloctities aso?? Changing veloctiy isn't enough, your're stil lgoing to miss low since the lower velocity isn't accounted for in the sight in - zero range beeing low..

    If that is not possible, it is rather useless compared to other programs? The whole point with such a device is to receive a first hit, not beeing several clicks away..

    I whish Nielsen-Kellerman had teemed up with nightforce instead if that is the case.. ExBal works very well.