Just In: "The Truth About Wolves in the West"

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by Roadrunner, Nov 30, 2004.

  1. Roadrunner

    Roadrunner Well-Known Member

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    I was just reading the Shoshone Wilderness Adventures catalogue, and came across this very interesting quote (the swearwords are their's also):

    "THE TRUTH ABOUT WOLVES IN THE WEST
    In the August '04 issue of Petersen's Hunting Wyoming Game & Fish Chief Jay Lawson says his state's "generally stable elk hunting should pay big divididends this fall". This is a classic example of the absolute bullshit that comes from some state's game departments, anxious to sell their hunting licenses. The fact is, wolves have decimated the once healthy elk herds in the Yellowstone ecosystem. Outfitters are afraid to say anything for fear they won't sell their hunts. In my opinion, the introduction of wolves has produced the greatest wildlife tragedy since we nearly wiped out the American Bison 130 years ago. The moose are gone, the elk are down 60-75%, and there is no relief in sight. The winter refuges are scattered with half-eated carcasses of six point bulls. There is virtually no calf survival. There are dozens of outfitters in this area for sale. It's a very grim picture. Wolves are the greatest tool the anti-hunters have every found. Please support any legislation that proposes the controlled hunting of these magnificent predators. It's not the wolves fault, it's our fault. The wolves are just being wolves. They must be controlled. Even with immediate hunting, the sad truth is, it will be decades before the wildlife in this region recovers."

    This is very interesting, because my outfitter told me on my recent failed elk hunt to Montana (I was just outside of Yellowstone) that last year the DNR did an hellicopter survey of just the local area where I was and they counted 78 wolves, that they could find, Lord knows how many more they couldn't find.
     
  2. wapiti13

    wapiti13 Well-Known Member

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    Very sad but true. Have a friend in the Idaho Fish & Game. Our largest herd of elk in Idaho is experiencing an 60 - 70 % kill of cows and calves in some areas. Hard to maintain and keep herds going with these high kill ratios. When hunting now, you see wolves moving during the day in broad daylight. [​IMG]
     

  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    So you get a feel for where I am... my property boarders the eastern edge of the Shoshone National Forest. I am 30 miles from the east enterance of Yellowstone.


    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>It's not the wolves fault, it's our fault. The wolves are just being wolves. They must be controlled. Even with immediate hunting, the sad truth is, it will be decades before the wildlife in this region recovers."
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    AMEN....

    The anti's with Clinton's help put this very well thought out plan into effect. The Gov't spent millions or the research of how many wolves "the park" would hold.. of course their study found that they could introduce more... Lets think about this...

    you add a few breeding pairs into a place which essentially is an all you can eat smorgasboard... kinda like introducing mold or bacteria into a warm damp place.. think it will grow??? Think you can contain it?
    thats what they told us.. "the wolves won't leave that park... they are needed to control the populations in the park.." well no shit.. what happens when the decimate the population in the park? Well.. they venture out... AND THEY HAVE! They are depleating the herds to an almost unrecoverable point. the plan is .. WHEN THERE ARE NO ANIMALS TO HUNT THERE WILL BE NO NEED TO OWN FIREARMS!!! BELIEVE IT!! IT IS TRUE!


    Now that being said... I sound like any rancher or farmer who has lost a multiple generation owned ranch.. and believe me there are life long ranching families loosing their livelyhood everyday.. I know I see it.. those assholes in that big white house in the east won't come out here to actually see what they have done... they don't have the guts... they can't stomach the truth... they don't want see the magnificent wolf ( and they are ) killing for sport... they don't want to see a pack of wolves tear into fluffy white sheep... they don't want to see the wolves tear into a week old calf.... or a just born, wobbly, so ugly it is cute, calf moose... they are afraid to see those graphic pictures.. BUT YOU BETTER BELIVE WE SEE IT EVERYDAY!!!! I own and opperate a guest ranch and one of the highlights is the abundance of wildlife we see on our trailrides... at least we used to... I normally would have 40-70 deer in my pasture today, most of you know I have posted thes pictures of the deer on my hay.. in the bed of my pickup... well not any more... the populations are amazinly thin... we ride on over 5 square miles typically and on a daily basis.. let me just say that there are mile long meadows on the moutain tops with knee high grass.. thats right knee high grass... why.... there are no Elk or deer to graze on it....
    For any of you who have ever given to any kind of funding to a wildlife or ecological society better check to see what they did with your money....

    Here's and interesting thing that I bet none of you east of here, or west of here, for that matter have ever heard....
    NOW THIS IS FACTUAL!!! It is a case in court as we speak...

    THe wolves are so bad and so thick that game and fish are trapping them and MOVING THEM from the park... yes that's right moving them.. transporting them to other areas of this state and others... they are accelerating the natural movement of these wolves there are wolves in Utah for the first time in over 117 years!! WELL guess what our game and fish got caught doing... they were caught red handed ( on film ) attempting to release 3 wolves onto a ranchers property... that in itself is bad enough but the real kicker is that they were trying to turn these wolves loose in this ranchers calving pasture... oh yeah, and by the way it was right in the middle of the calving season...

    NOw I am ranting.. but justifiably so... most of you don't deal with these problems, we raise horses... we have foals every year... our horses are considered pets legally. So if wolves were to ever walk into our pastures and kill one of our foals .. WE WOULD GET NO rembursment... NONE! even though we are assured that the wolves won't ever get this far... did I mention that the ranchers property is 80 miles from the park and 30 miles east of me... so at the very least that puts me with wolves on both sides... AND we have picutes of wolf prints on the pathway of our cabins... AND my neighbors dog was attacked by 3 wolves and his nieghbor had his dog killed by the same 3 wolves... we hear them howling on a weekly basis.... all this, after a few years ago we were told, they would never leave the park....

    again, I am ranting... because most of you have no idea what has been done to the northwest .. all of you who have hopes and aspirations of hunting out here... better do it real soon... we need at least 30% of the ELK herd population to be calves to have a normal carry over to insure the population remains strong... so that is 30 calves in every 100 ELk... we have a local herd that winter in our pastures across the road ... there are about 60-80 head in that herd.. we had 4 calves last year..not 40 but only 4...

    I am not one of these guys who says kill all the wolves... there is a definite need for them... but not the numbers we actually have.. we need to have a controlled hunting season... what has happened in just the past 2 years is absolutly amazing... they are incredible , magnificient creatures but they are very efficient killers too...

    we need to find solutions quickly, but then again we are dealing with our government.. and nothing happens quickly... I am afraid to admit it but your dreams of the big Elk hunt out west are quickly fading...

    thanks for letting me rant.....

    I may even delete this after I re-read it.. but it is all factual... sad but true....

    [ 12-01-2004: Message edited by: Ric Horst ]

    [ 12-01-2004: Message edited by: Ric Horst ]
     
  4. Paul Wyatt

    Paul Wyatt Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Ric. We have seen the same thing in the Salmon River area of Idaho where I hunt. Three years ago we photographed wolf tracks and showed them to the Fish and Game and were told that they were dog tracks! Sad, Sad
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Oh.. I forgot.... this is good... my neighbor.. photographs these wolves just off his back porch...( 2 greys and 1 black ) and take this photo to game and fish and asks them to identify and explain, why? They told him... those are Coyotes... when my neighbor argued they are not coyotes.. game and fish got aggressive and angry with his unwillingness to believe them.... and .. get this... they asked my neighbor how he is so sure they are wolves and not coyotes...

    his reply...

    well.. I am a retired veternarian.....

    [ 12-01-2004: Message edited by: Ric Horst ]
     
  6. RBrowning

    RBrowning Well-Known Member

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    Ric,
    Maybe if the neighbor left the three carcase's on their steps they could do a better job of identifying them.

    By the way, what were those three S's again?
     
  7. milanuk

    milanuk Well-Known Member

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    Shoot, Shovel, Shut up!

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Hunter66654

    Hunter66654 Well-Known Member

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    I understand wolves are extremely smart. How would you hunt them with enough success to do any good with reducing their numbers ? It's a shame there is not a season on the bastards that put them there to start with.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The Clinton era is responsible for most of it...

    as far as hunting them .. I dunno I am not a wolf outfitter.. the Alaska members might have a better handle on it...
     
  10. Budman

    Budman Well-Known Member

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    Ric, we have the same problem in Wisconsin. If that problem is not enough they just turned 10 Cougars loose in our County along. Suppodely we have 1.7 million deer and this is to reduce the herd. At 1.7 million deer, it equates out to 30 deer for every single square mile of the state. I wish these people would do my tax returns and count the same way. Our heritage is slipping fast. Going to be real hard to take the grandson hunting when the time gomes and there is very little to keep there interest up. Just makes the blood boil. I give money and lobby yet our legislators hands seem to be tied because of the buracracy of the DNR. Dave
     
  11. Kevin

    Kevin Well-Known Member

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    Same over here on the west side of the park.
    For the past few years there have been periodic news stories talking about how we will be able to hunt the wolves in x ammount of time, but it never happens. Instead, in our area, last year they allowed the shooting of cows and bulls for the first week, and this year they allowed hunting of cow and bulls for the entire season, and now they reported that not enough elk were harvested and they extended the season.
    Very strange that because of lower elk numbers they are making up for it by giving hunters more oportunity to harvest an elk.

    Something needs to be done before its too late.
     
  12. ATH

    ATH Well-Known Member

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    Wolves are natural to the ecosystem and IMHO should be there...HOWEVER, to release them and not control the population is a HUGE mistake.
    It may seem nice to see huge herds of deer everywhere for hunting, but there is another side to this story too. Michigan maintains the deer population at insane levels for the purpose of hunting. This has resulted in the ravaging of farmer's crops (just as unregulated wolves can ravage sheep/cattle ranches), record deer/car crashes and human deaths, and decimated ecology. Natural forests should have an understory, yet they no longer do in much of the state as the deer herd consumes ALL plants within reach. This is a documented scientific fact. Biodiversity in areas accessible to deer is less than 10% of that in areas fenced from deer.
    Do I think there should be wolves in the West? Yes. Will some economic harm come from rancher losses? Yes, but nobody compensates my parents for the thousands of dollars in crop damage they put up with every year due to a deer population inflated for sport hunters either. Will the game animal populations be affected? Yes, but even as a hunter I don't think these populations should be maintained solely in the interests of the hunting community...this would be self-serving and in complete ignorance of the ecosystem and ecology of the area.
    It is inexcusable that they would release these animals in an area like Yellowstone with no control mechanisms in place. It is natural that they will proliferate and kill the herds down to a point where the wolves begin to starve, and an equilibrium will be reached. However, given the unnatural range limitations and other changes that humans have caused, we can no longer assume that nature will take care of itself and that this equilibrium will occur at an acceptable level. WE MUST CONTROL THE PREDATORS, JUST AS WE CONTROL THE PREY.
     
  13. cdmorten

    cdmorten Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to have to agree with Milanuk. Cougars are just starting to show up in Nebraska as well. We're not sure how they got here. Supposedly they migrated from the bordering Wy and Co. If they become a problem I may have to resort to Milanuk's SSS strategy.
     
  14. Whitewolf393

    Whitewolf393 Well-Known Member

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    I live in Virginia where we now have an elk heard migrant from the state of Kentucky...I wonder if we'll have wolves "migrated" from elsewhere in the country soon. I have not yet had the opportunity to hunt on the herd, but hope to soon.

    Seriously, I am also of the opinion that the predator population needs to be checked just as the game population does, so there's nothing less than COMPLETE BALANCE in the environment. As PJ O'Rourke once said, "Politics is a lousy way to get things done." But unfortunately that's what rules the day in many places, particularly where the National Parks are located. Teddy Roosevelt, one of our greatest wildlife conservationists, a serious hunter and IMHO a helluva president, would be turning in his grave now.