just as expected can't shoot berger vld

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Freedom2live, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. Freedom2live

    Freedom2live Banned

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    Reloaded a bunch of berger 243 105 gr in various powder loads form minimum to max... Every single bullet tumbled to the target .. I ll say rifle twist will always stabilize a bullet, may shoot eradic but not tumble... I mean if I wanted to relive Vietnam than tumbling bullets are it.. Than I loaded 80 psp and shot .25 moa, should I even try lower weight vlds .. Twist is 1-9, also I believe its wasting my time and money shooting anything heavier than 90 gr.. Just not enough powder powder to push a heavy bullet in 243.. Any recent experience ??
     
  2. ICANHITHIMMAN

    ICANHITHIMMAN Well-Known Member

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    You are approaching the VLD from the wrong standpoint. You have only done half the work. What you described is a pressure test for the VLD. now you need to run the seating depths. Read the info in my signature line. Take the results from your pressure test ie. the max safe load and back it off half a grain. Then do the seating depth test as out lined.

    You would be better off trying the 95g anyways but you may get lucky with the 105. Also you need to be shooting at 200+m on these test. If your bullets are key holing you not going to make it work. Its worse than Nam in that case because they are not supposed to yaw until they enter.
     

  3. Freedom2live

    Freedom2live Banned

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    The best group I got with these tumbling bullets were @40-41.5 of powder the seating was 10 were touching the lands 10 were 4thousand off 10 were 50 thousand off. And still no key hole just wide bullets shaped hole like sideways
     
  4. ICANHITHIMMAN

    ICANHITHIMMAN Well-Known Member

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    wow, try the 95g and read the stuff in the signature line. Where you live?
     
  5. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    Does it not say right on the box that the 105's are for 1:8 twist Minimum ? Your Ruger is a genuine 1:9 but thats not going to cut it with the 105's for sure.

    Which 95's do you have ? You should be alright with those, but what barrel length do you have ? If you have a 22" barrel your velocity will be sub par and with that the RPM will be below expectation. Heavy bullets and short barrels are not a good partnership. The stability calculators will want to know the actual velocity from your barrel.
     
  6. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    WOW, that sucks. We shoot the 105's from 1-10 twist 243's no problemo but I got a little elevation. The 95's should be fine, have you verified the twist rate?
     
  7. Freedom2live

    Freedom2live Banned

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    Bigngreen how deep you seat your 105 ??. Also what powder your using ??.. I was shocked at the tumbling on paper. I expected smooth holes.. I understand its a 1-9. I know that should not cause them to tumble..
     
  8. ShootnMathews

    ShootnMathews Well-Known Member

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    I would recommend the 87 grn VLD or the 95 grn classic hunter. They are both rated for a 1:9 twist
     
  9. Freedom2live

    Freedom2live Banned

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    I called ruger. And that's what he said 1978 1-9 twist..
     
  10. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    "When all else fail, read the instructions"

    What did you expect would happen to a bullet that was rotating too slow to stabilize ? Long bullets are inherently less stable than shorter ones. The center of pressure is ahead of the center of gravity. Turn them too slow and they will tumble for sure.

    Hopefully you learn from your mistakes and don't repeat this exercise on every caliber you own... The laws of physics do not care about the interests of any man.
     
  11. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    Adjusting seating depth and load will not stabilize a bullet that is going crazy so early, velocity is only going to help in the cases where the bullet starts tumbling later in the flight path but start out stable.
    I would run a tight patch down the barrel and verify the twist rate and not take someones word for it, at very low elevation I can see the 105 maybe not being stable but the 95 should be at sea level with a 1-9.
    The twist rate calculator at the Berger website works well, I can shoot bullets with quite a bit less twist because I'm at 6000ft and they stabilize much better up here so a guy should check his own specific twist rate needs at his elevation.
     
  12. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    He has not tried the 95's yet. He should be fine with them, even if they are close to the edge, they will not be tumbling... But 105's are not going to work in a 9 twist since there is no way he could get enough powder in the chamber. On top of that I believe he has a 22" barrel too.
     
  13. Freedom2live

    Freedom2live Banned

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    Yup, 22" barrel, adjusted my seating depth on remaining loads around 20 bullets left.. Not expecting anything good but since am new to reading about a month into it. It won't hurt learning about how rifling works
     
  14. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

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    SHAPE of the bullet is whats killing you...i.e. bearing surface inside the barrel. Change bullets before you change anything else.

    My 243 holds good groups and I dont shoot Berger VLD's AT ALL.