Jim Zumbo repents!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by bwaites, Aug 11, 2007.

  1. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

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    There is an article in the new Issue of SWAT magazine written by Jim Zumbo.

    He tries to explain his thought process when writing his blog and how, through the help and intervention of a lot of people, he has come to realize how wrong he was.

    It does not come off as self serving, at least not to me, but as the honest effort of someone who simply spoke without knowing anything about what he was talking about, something which celebrities of all kinds seem to do.

    He points out that he is a hunter, not a gun guy, and that he honestly didn't see why there was so much fascination with the "Black Rifles".

    He repeatedly admits he screwed up, big time, by speaking about something which he knew nothing about.

    It satisfies me that he has changed his position on our beloved rifles, and boy has he paid a heavy price for having been stupid!

    Bill
     
  2. MachV

    MachV Well-Known Member

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    Imagine what a better world it would be if we crucified these jokers as bad as we did Zumbo!!
    Mrs. FEINSTEIN
    Mr. KENNEDY
    Mr. LEVIN
    Mr.MENENDEZ
    Ms. MIKULSKI
    Mrs. CLINTON
    Mr. DURBIN
    Mrs. BOXER
    Mr. LAUTENBERG
    Mr. SCHUMER
    Mr. DODD
     

  3. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    I have that same magizine and was pretty impressed that he has done a 180 on his views on the "black rifles" its just to bad that he opened his mouth before engaging his brain , must not have gotten back handed enough when he was kid.

    I met his at a big RMEF show one time about 10 years ago , he looked lost , i walked up and introduced myself and we talked about hunting Elk in Arizona for about 30 min , he is a pretty nice guy and seemed very sociable. To bad that he has a huge scar on his resume now.

    Maybe he should have a 300 RSUM built on an AR-10 and hunt with that for a while :D
     
  4. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

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    Well, it was a huge mistake, but I, of course, have NEVER opened MY mouth before engaging my brain!!

    Time to forgive and move on in my point of view!

    Bill
     
  5. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Thats all fine for the AR crowd but you may remember that another issue was his hammering comments toward long range hunting. Seems he has not changed his opinion on us long range hunters???????

    That would not get him out of retirement however, sucking up to the AR crowd possibly will.

    I do not think he has changed his mind at all, he is a main stream gun writer who has for years spoke his mind as honestly as anyone out there. Only this time his ego caught up with him and now that he got flattened by the response, he is "changing" his opinon of ARs for use in the field.

    I am not convinced, to many gun writers for the major rags writing about what they are told to right and not enough speaking from the heart. Zumbo used to write from the heart, he told us exactly what he honestly felt, now he has folded in an attempt to get back in the game.

    I say this only because he has addressed only half of the groups he offended with his comments, and by the way, its the half where the money comes from. Interesting how that works.

    I am not one to kick a guy when hes down but I see nothing that changes my opinion of Zumbo. I think he should just enjoy his retirement personally. Maybe I am being to hard on the guy but the simple fact that it was a conversation with one of my customers about one of my custom rifles that started his comments on his blog against long range shooters that I take personal offense to. He has not tried to address those comments in any way and the only reason he addressed his AR comments is because he either had to or it was over for him. It would make no difference if he addressed us long range shooters and hunters so he did not make any attempt to do so.

    If there was no reason to address the AR crowd he would not have done that either but there is a reason, a big reason, its $$$$!!!! Plain and simple.

    I can respect a guy for being honest with his feelings. I can disagree with everything he stands for but as long as his feelings are legit and honest, I respect anyone for that, his flip flop does not earn him any respect in my book because he is still an uneducated man on the subject of long range hunting and I guarantee he still feels it should not be done.

    Again, anyone has their right to forgive and forget, I choose to simply forget......

    As for the list of people we should hammer, I agree totally, hard to do that though when the media that covers them is in their back pocket!!! as are well over half of the citizens of the US that have not a clue about what those people actually do everyday!!!

    Hell most of the people that have been polled as to why they would vote for hilary in '08 said simply because she is a women. Is that not scary as hell!!!!!

    Enough rant!!!! I hope Zumbo has truely changes his feelings but I know that has not happened toward long range hunters and that was my original main beef with him. Unfortunately he sounds like the current batch of Democrats flip flopping with the way the wind blows.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  6. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

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    The issue with LRH is that only a small percentage of hunters are capable of it.

    The truth is that of all the hunters I know personally, maybe 1% have put in the time to actually be successful at it. The vast majority of hunters have NO business taking shots over 300 yards, much less more than 600!

    Go to any range. Most of the guys sight in at 100 yards, and call it good. I've watched dozens of guys in the last few weeks getting ready for hunting season, only 1 of them went to the 400 yard range and shot, and he was going to Africa!!

    Zumbo may be right about the vast majority of hunters, even if he isn't right about the guys here on this board.

    I'm not ready to shoot over 500 yards myself, I need lots more practice, to attend a long range training course, and to just flat get better.

    Zumbo may very well be in the same boat with LRH as he was with AR's, completely uneducated about the existence and possibilities of the weapons and systems.

    If I had heard about 1000+ yard shots on game a year ago I would have screamed about the ethics of such an endeavor, having haunted the board for a while, I find LRH guys to be among the most ethical of hunters. Zumbo may need the same education!

    Bill
     
  7. ol mike

    ol mike Well-Known Member

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    Right on MachV !!
     
  8. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    Forgetting and or forgiving

    Usually this is the way it works:

    Normally human beings can forgive but not forget,
    but if you will ever forget, it will not happen before
    you forgive! :)

    I like that!
     
  9. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

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    I was always of the belief that you could never forget until you have truly forgiven, and once you had truly forgiven, forgetting was no problem. So I guess that fits with what you say.

    Bill
     
  10. koginam

    koginam Well-Known Member

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    His concern with long range hunting is his personal opinion, and If I had that opinion I would voice it as well.
    Lets be honest we all have seen people take shots at game they were not qualified to shot in experience or equipment.
    It takes more then having a rifle and scope and lots of range time to make a long range hunter it takes ethics as well, you have to be able to NOT pull the trigger when you have any doubt of success, sadly their are lots of hunters out their with the equipment but their ethics level isn't very high, and these are the ones that give the others a bad name. While Zumbo has some foundation for his statements, I just wish he would have contacted some true long range hunters and then he might have learned their is a difference between long range hunting and long range shooting.
    As to his pandering to the AR crowd because he wants $$$ He has a family to feed like the rest of us. If that's were the money is then more power to him. I can't begrudge a man making an honest living even if I disagree with him.
    I think we should invite him to meet some true long range hunters and see if he will qualify his statements on the subject as well.
     
  11. Shawn Carlock

    Shawn Carlock Sponsor

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    This is exactly my issue with those who bash or "voice their concerns" about long range hunting. They direct the focus on long range hunting as an unethical technique, instead of focusing on the fact that there are alot of people shooting beyond their abilities. My position is that long range hunters hunting within their ability are more ethically squared away than your avarage hunter for a # of reasons that I won't go into. I agree with Kirby almost 100% I think he is just trying to recover ground he lost. I have met a far higher % of "long range" hunters practicing to take ethical high % shots than I have met closer range moving target hunters practicing to make high % shots in their choosen method of hunting. I don't condem their methods only the fact that a certain segment of the hunting population dosen't care if it is a high % shot or not, just that it is a shot. I have seen this in almost all forms of hunting, shotgun, archery, rifle, muzzleloader, long range, etc. None of these techniques are bad or unethical if utlized by ethical people. Saying that long range hunting is unethical is almost as stupid as saying that gun ownership causes higher crime rates. In the end Zumbo has shown that he is uneducated about a great number of things and is willing to form opinions based on no facts at all. For a writer to submit opinions as uneducated as these were is unethical in my view. What ever happened to observe, test and field test something before writing about it? They have a word where I am from for some one who would write an opinion about something they have now admitedly know nothing about,"DUMBASS". The damage he has done cannot be fixed totally and for recklessly using his influence as a magazine writer I for one am glad he got a shot right in the groin for it.
     
  12. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

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    WOW!!

    I hope I never screw up around you guys, no forgiveness around here!

    Bill
     
  13. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    PROVERBS 24:17
    Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth:
    PROVERBS 24:18
    Lest the LORD see it, and it displease him, and he turn away his wrath from him.
     
  14. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    No one is debating that there is a vast majority of people out there that should not attempt long range hunting. Still, I am not happy being lumped into a catagory by someone that says what I do is slob hunting and unethical when in the next breath they will take or write an article about the best rifles out there for use jump shooting whitetails in heavy brush.

    It is far less ethical to shoot at a running whitetail or elk in heavy cover then it is to take a 500 yard shot on the same game that is relaxed and unaware of your intentions.

    Even if the shooter is not well practiced at long range shooting, a 500 yard shot at a calm animal will produce far better results then shooting at a running whitetail at 50 yards in heavy brush. Still one is promoted as ethical and the other is scorned.

    The problem with opinions is that everyone has one. That is not a bad thing, we need them and have a right to them. The problem is that when someone has a platform of power and uses it to spread their opinion onto those that are uneducated enough to make up their own opinion based on facts.

    A prime example, Rosy O'Donnel. Am I saying Zumbo is as bad as Rosy, no, but the damage he could do to the shooting sports would probably be just as bad as Rosy.

    Rosy things no one should have any firarms at all because she lives in New York where she sees no need for them.

    Zumbo never hunted with an AR so it was his opinion that they were worthless for field use and made that claim in public and only recanted his comments when he was forced to.

    Zumbo does not think long range hunting is practical or ethical because he has never taken the time to see what can be done with good gear and most of all an educated shooter. As such he things everyone should think as he does. If enough start thinking that way, do not be surpised if we start to see some range limits imposed, stranger things have happened.

    Everyone knows Rosy is a quake and no one really takes anything she says as meaningful, but if the anti gunners hear that Zumbo, a well respected member of the shooting sports is against any area of shooting or any specific firearm system, thats more ammo for them to use by saying, "See, even one of the most well known hunters alive is against such and such type of hunting with such and such type of firearms!!!"

    Ya think the libbers need any more ammo, especially ammo from our own family members???

    I have nothing against voicing your opinion but when you try to impose your opinion on uneducated people it can dramatically sway their opinion on a subject for no meaningful reason except because if one "expert" thinks this way maybe I should as well.

    Yes Long Range shooters and Hunters are a very small group of people, at least the proficent ones are but we are growing in number through education and the proper gear specifically for such hunting. We do not need to take beatings from those in our own shooting and hunting family.

    Zumbo started playing with some ARs in the field largely thanks to Ted Nugent and seemingly has changed his mind on the matter. Maybe he should pay to take Shawns long range shooting and hunting course and I bet at the end of it he would have a change of heart as well..... Maybe not but at least he would know what good gear and good instruction could allow him to do.

    As far as you not being able to reach out to 500 yards, with the right rifle, I guarantee after a weekend of shooting we could have you consistantly hitting small targets at ranges well past 1/2 mile in good conditions.

    THis is the critical area of long range hunting, knowing the conditions and more importantly, knowing your limits. This is something no other type of hunting needs to really worry about and as such they seldom do, we do not have that luxury. As such, from what I have seen shooting with some of the best shooters in the world, those of us that are students of the long range shooting skills are some of the most dedicated, ethical and patient hunters there are.

    I remember around 10 months ago when I was sitting on a mountain side with Shawn Carlock and Travis Reggear and his son watching a 160 class whitetail walk up a trail for nearly an hour. He was in plain view for most of that time but was either quartering to much or something did not work for a shot. He moved more then 150 yards farther away over that time making the shot even more difficult.

    As we watched the buck walk away, the comment was made several times that it would be better to let the buck walk and try to get him that evening then wound him on a questionable shot. All were in total agreement with that comment. Fortunately after an hour of watching, the buck turned perfectly broadside at 850 yards and all of our patients was rewarded.

    Now how many "ethical" hunters would sit there and watch a 160 class whitetail at 50 yards run through some river bottom brush and not throw at least one piece of lead at it as it flashed in and out of cover?????

    Would Zumbo scorn this hunter, NOT A CHANCE. Would he scorn what we did in Idaho, probably since he was not there to see how it went down.

    That is my point, if your not educated on a subject, keep your mouth shut until you get some education, especially if your in a position to influence a large mass of people.

    Kirby Allen(50)