Is the 300 wsm case somewhat magical?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by kraky2, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. kraky2

    kraky2 Well-Known Member

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    There seems to be a rash of people talking about this case lately. Maybe it's the intro of RE17 that has the talk going hard.
    Anyhow there seems to be those that think the shape of the case is what makes it "seemingly" equal the bigger 300 win mag in velocity. It's been my contention that the wsm case is probably tougher and is getting loaded to higher pressure.
    Have any of you guys got input on the subject....do you think short and fat==faster all things equal.
     
  2. Cruizin

    Cruizin Well-Known Member

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    I think there are a few things that people admire about the 300 wsm case.

    Norma brass is available and this is one reason people do the 7mm 300 wsm.

    I have read but don't know if it is true or not that a short fatter case burns powder in a more uniform fashion compared to a longer case.
     

  3. 3006savage

    3006savage Well-Known Member

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    Only the ones sprinkled with Pixie Dust are magical and I happen to have some for sale!:D

    I do buy into some of the case design advantages of the WSM type design. Keep in mind that the reloading manuals do adhere to the SAMMI pressure limits when publishing the manuals as do the ammo manufacturers when making ammo. So if you are following the manual maxs on average the WSM will certainly outperform a longer narrower case design with a lower SAMMI pressure rating. However if you are going by stickey bolt lift, flattened primers, etc the performance will run much closer. I think a big part of the equation is your rifle and what the OAL of the cartridge is in your rifle.

    Some rifles chambered in short mag will not allow the bullets to be set out very far due the magazine and action length. This can hold back the rounds performance with some longer bullets. I would say if you go with the WSM make sure you have adaquate length in your rifle to avoid loosing case capacity due to the bullets seating depth. I like to have the base of the bullet seated just at or below the end of the case neck depending on how long the boat tail is. This of course also applys to standard length magnums.
     
  4. britz

    britz Well-Known Member

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    Well you need not look any farther to qualify the perfection of the case because I chose it... therefore it must be the best lol! just kidding.

    I don't think the WSM will out preform the WM in any bullet weight. However, it will be very comparable to the wm with 180 gr bullets and lighter. Seating the bullets deep into the case with heavy bullets will diminish it's performance.

    And for some reason the 300WSM has exceptional barrel life compared to the WM. Its kinda like the 50 year old arguement between the venerable 30-06 and the 308 win. The win is just a more efficient case, but the 06 will push a little harder.
     
  5. MagnumManiac

    MagnumManiac Well-Known Member

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    I seriously think that all the hype put out by Winchester and gun writers has definately had an effect on the brainwashing of modern rifleman.
    Has the 300WinMag been replaced on the 1000yrd line by the 300WSM, I think not, not where I shoot anyway.
    If the hype regarding a shorter, fatter case being more accurate than a belted case, then why does the 300WinMag give bench rest like groups in a well tuned rifle?
    If it was so inaccurate that it had to be replaced by another, why hasn't the replacement shown up in the record books?
    The 300WSM, even overloaded, will not match the velocity of my 300WinMag with 200gr bullets, nor the accuracy and trajectory.
    I can, and do get just under 3100fps with Nosler 200gr Accubonds, do that with your 300WSM!
    It may well be that the 300WSM burns powder more efficiently, but cubic inches is where you get velocity from, not efficiency. The 222 Remington is a very efficient cartridge, but no matter how efficient it is, it will never match the 223 for speed, even though accuracy is often better in the 222, but neither will match the 22-250 for speed, and the accuracy in a tuned rifle is often matched with the 222Rem.
    HYPE just makes you feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside, until you get into the real world and discover it to be just that, HYPE!

    As for 'magical', what exactly is 'magical' about the 300WSM?
    Cheers.
    MagnumManiac.
    gun)
     
  6. nheninge

    nheninge Well-Known Member

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    Not sure I buy into the whole cubic inches + velocity thing. If you could build a case 1 extruded powder kernel wide and 100 miles long it would certainly have more cubic inches, but efficiency would suck. It would take a hell of a throat to chamber that round! The WSM gains its "step up" from the short, wide powder column. However, the steep neck keeps it out of the "dangerous game category d/t chambering issues. Both are excellent rifles.

    300 WM norma brass = 147$/100 (out of stock) and 300 WSM Norma brass = 121$/100 (in stock).
     
  7. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    Wow dude, 3100 fps witha 200 gr bullet out of a 300 Win??? That is great. How long is your barrel? That is 400 fps faster than what Fed advertizes in a 200 gr bullet out of a WM.
     
  8. johnnyk

    johnnyk Well-Known Member

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    Only in the minds of some. JohnnyK.
     
  9. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    I have never shot the 300 WM but I have a WSM. With H4350 I can get 3050 with 168 TTSX's and 3020 fps with 180 gr E-Tips. With Fed factory loads I get about 3000 fps with 180 SP's and 180 AB's which is 40 fps faster than publihed. This is out of a Sako 85 Finnlight with 24"bbl.

    Fed publishes the same velocity for the WM and WSM in the 180 gr bullets. From everything that I've read the 300 WSM is very close and sometimes equal to the WM. I like the shorter cases and especially like no belts.

    To say that shape of case and efficiency has no effect on velocity is IMO delusional.
     
  10. Topshot

    Topshot Well-Known Member

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    For what its worth (not much), Im my opinion.

    Why not go straigh to the .300 RUM. It has more velocity than either the .300WSM or 300WM. It also has no belt which seems to upset some people.

    If you are going to shoot a non wildcat 30cal magnum with heavey bullets, you might as well shoot the best!

    If you are shy of recoil then shoot a .308W and limit your distance.
     
  11. TheReeper

    TheReeper Well-Known Member

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    There are 1000 yard bench rest shooters who are using the 300 WSM and getting 2950fps to 3000fps with the 210grn Berger. They are using 30" barrels, have the barrel throated for the long bullets which allow the bullets to be seated much farther out. Seating the bullets farther out will allow the shooter to have a bit more powder campacity.
     
  12. MagnumManiac

    MagnumManiac Well-Known Member

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    My barrel is 26", and why compare what a manual quotes, their barrels will shoot differently to every other barrel out there, just as mine and yours does.
    I don't understand the mentallity that anyone must be wrong or bullshitting when they quote velocities that are higher than any one manual quotes, my chronograph doesn't lie, and my Nosler manual quotes 2972fps as their fastest load, my barrel is faster with all bullet weights when I use RE25.
    Cheers.
    MagnumManiac.
    gun)
     
  13. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    Topshot, that's a good point. I would like to get a 300 RUM and keep my WSM. The nice thing about a 300 WSM is you can get it in a more compact package, it uses a lot less powder, barrels last a lot longer, better selection of brass and of course a lot less recoil. On the short side, the WSM will get about 300-400 yds less effective range.
     
  14. nheninge

    nheninge Well-Known Member

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    magmaniac said cubic inches of powder = velocity. This is only partially true. I say case shape and efficiency = velocity. A 300 wm shooting 3100 fps is great unless the group size is 12 inches. Quite the debate for a tremendous trifle.