Is "Big Green Slipping?

Discussion in 'Equipment Discussions' started by 7stw, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. 7stw

    7stw Well-Known Member

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    First and formost I would like to start by saying that I have always been a Remington man, But in the past couple of years, I have noticed suttle but accumulative changes in their products and services. I was recently in a well to do gun shop, and was looking at some of the new models, and prices naturally, and noticed that the fit and finish just wasn'tthe best. Secondly, I recently had a rifle that went back for warranty work. It was returned with little explanation as to what was done, and the repair was borderline adequite. I have had freinds tell me that they were having issues, and they just don't seem to be as "accurate out of the box"as they used to be, and I can attest to that. Could this be that the new owners, Freedom Group or whoever has changed the rules or is it just a sign of the times. I do know that most factory rifles are Diamonds in the Rough. But it seems like a little more polishig is needed these days. Please don't get me wrong! I am not bashing Remington, as I own a lot of their rifles, and may even buy another soon. I am just wondering why the Quality is not as sharp any more.Any thoughts or similar opinions? 7STW
     
  2. LONGSHOOTER

    LONGSHOOTER Well-Known Member

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    Their Q.C. and workmanship is in bad need of attention.
     

  3. howard3

    howard3 Active Member

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    A good friend bought one of the new Remington XHR's (Extreme Hunting Rifle) in 300 RUM last fall. This rifle has the triangular barrel and camo Tupperware stock. I warned him about the stock, but we decided to see if perhaps he lucked up and got one that would shoot well.

    To begin with, the X-Mark trigger would not adjust below 5 lbs. and he had to get Remington to send a replacement. Then, the rifle shot poorly throughout the break-in, with no consistency in grouping at all. When we looked at the once-fired brass, we were astounded to see spiral ridges that had been fire formed into the body of every piece! The chamber had been improperly cut/never finished!

    We finally got the rifle to shoot 4" groups at 200 yards by grinding out the pressure pad in the stock, free floating the barrel. After hunting season he sent the rifle back to the factory and they replaced the barrel. He has ordered a B&C Medalist stock.

    On this rifle, Big Green was a shadow of the former company! They are obviously more interested in producing rifles with new and unique looks, or with "tactical" looks and features, rather than rifles that shoot well.

    Sad!
     
  4. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    I think you both nailed it.Rem just isnt what they used to be. My father-in-law was a Rem only kinda guy,and built a few customs on thier actions as well. Now-a-days he wont even consider looking at them. Q/C seems to have gone by the wayside, and thier triggers are not even close to what they were. Its too bad, but I realy do think that theyve gone away from what has made them so reputable and liked(quality 700's) to pushing the ''tacticle'' and ''tupperware'' stuff instead. Hopefully thier corprate decision makers decide to look hard at what origionaly made Rem famous, and take a couple steps back in that direction. lightbulb
     
  5. cowboy

    cowboy Well-Known Member

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  6. Southpaw

    Southpaw Well-Known Member

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    I have 9 Rem 700's and 2 actions (that's just the bolt guns) I picked up as donor actions. I have become discussed with Remington, I used to be a huge fan, but as much as their quality has gone down, they have turned away from us lefties. They have a vary limited caliber choices and limited model choices.

    From now on it's custom's, clones, and Savages.

    Remington fan no more.

    Southpaw
     
  7. 7stw

    7stw Well-Known Member

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    When I originally started this thread, I thought that maybe some of what I was seeing and saying was just alittle bit here and there. But I guess it is alittle more wide spread , and like I said before, a sign of the times. I have always thought of Remington, just like apple pie, and chevrolet. They USED to make some very nice and ACCURATE firearms! I know because I have a gun cabinet full of em'. But this new gen. is crap, and poor qc, and not so freindly as they used to be customer service. It is really saddening, and almost sickening. Just when you think at least a few things won't change, they do , and for the worst. I think that the good ones were the ones that were bought in the late 90's and early 2000 area. After that, or about when Freedom took over, quality went to the pooper. (p/s, they now own Barnes Bullets) Like you said, at least they make good platforms for custom rifles, if you get one of the older actions. Saddened! 7STW
     
  8. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    Remy-love em or leave em has been debated nemorous times before on LRH and what's interesting is the posts all mirror each other in various categories:

    1.) alot of folks that have had faulty rifles and are done with Remys.
    2.) few but far too many who have had faulty rifles and keep buying them.
    3.) most in 1 & 2 agree Remy Tech Support is unsatisfactory.
    4.) a few that own 14gazzillion and everyone shot like a BR rig (I didn't include
    these folks in rating Remy's Tech Support as they never had any issues).

    I'm going to oversimplify this to keep it short but, Some companies call it the triangle. Quality, Time, Cost. Pick any two you want but you cant have all three otherwise you go out of business. They have decided to go with Cost and Time so you get inexpensive and readily available but quality suffers and trust me they have reams of paper on type of defects/number of units blah blah blah and it's an acceptable number to them so long as they move X number of units at Y price and keep cost associated with defects to Z amount or below. It's not that they need a wake up call...they don't...it's their business plan and it works.

    Bottom line and I say this with no sarcasism but you get what you pay for...it's a roll of the dice. Think about it, 6-700 bucks retail of which maybe they get 4-500 bucks of that...now what do you think your going to get? Heck you can't get a custom action for that, a custom barrel not much less than that, a custom stock not much less than that, smith's labor more than that. There's hope though...If you want to buy a remy then purchase one from those that have 14gazillion that all shoot accurately.

    Remy has a niche, a Marketplace they can satisfy and they do cause they sell them by the boatloads. IMHO the Marketplace majority they are tuned into is not in LR shooting.

    If you want to read more on what folks have to say about Remy's here a link:

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/im-done-remington-35619/index7.html
     
  9. bowhunthard

    bowhunthard Well-Known Member

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    My VTR's accuracy is great (I handload tho), but the trigger and stock were horrible (I replaced both. BC Medalist Tactical Vertical Grip and Timney 1.5 - 4lb. trigger). I would not my another Remington in the near future, unless they had something I absolutely could not get somewhere else, and I was prepare to spend the money to "fix" it up.

    I am a big Savage fan tho, and from what I've seen (and own) their QC is great!

    I have a review for the VTR here: Remington model 700 VTR.
     
  10. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    Good read, thanks for posting.
     
  11. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    I will be the first to say if something is a poor product and will not pull the punches
    but over the years I have seen all of the rifle manufactures fall into a slump as far as
    quality control and most have learned that reputation will make or break you.

    I saw remington fall into this several times "BUT" it was minor things like a poor fitting
    stock,action screws that were two short (Only a couple of threads engagement), actions
    that were not faced squarely and recoil lugs that were not ground perfectly flat ETC.

    But Lately I have seen an improvement in machine tolerance (Better QC) than in the past
    on there actions, And the wooden stocks are inleted better,

    But as someone related to price controls quality and in order to hold the price down they
    like others came up with tupperware stocks that are junk and are no more than a handel.

    Also everyone is using a ugly black finish that is cheaper and as a results it looks cheap.

    To avoid this you have to spend 2 or 300.00 dollars more to get a good stock and a good
    finish.

    This Wal-Mart mentality is the reason that quality has gone down on some models and
    brands of rifles and will continue as long as the public wants cheep products as apposed
    to top quality.

    Fortunately there are better quality rifles in most manufactures inventory but you will have to
    pay more for them.

    And as to the accuracy of factory rifles the production line rifles will continue to be a pig in
    a poke as far as accuracy with maybe 1 out of 20 that will shoot decent.

    So overall I have seen an improvement in the machining tolerances in the actions in Remington
    and a turn down in fit and finish in the cheaper models.

    A custom barrel will cost an average of $300.00 and when you can buy a complete rifle for
    between $300.00 and $400.00 dollars you cant expect much.

    So if you want a good quality rifle you will have to pay for it ,if you just want a rifle that will
    shoot 2 or 3 MOA then the cheaper models will work.

    I blue print all actions and find minor problems with all brands including some custom actions
    not just Remington.

    Just my experiences of late.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  12. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    J E Custom, what has your experience been with quality of BAT actions out of the box?
     
  13. bowhunthard

    bowhunthard Well-Known Member

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    Surgeon makes an awesome action also...
     
  14. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Most all of the custom actions have been very close to perfect but you should always check
    them and not assume that this is always the case.

    I have found a few that needed a little tweaking but that is the exception not the rule
    but it does happen because somewhere in the QC testing something was missed.

    With factory actions the near perfect ones are the exception and not the rule and I can
    count on having to do something to all of them.

    J E CUSTOM