I switched from 180 nosler ballistic silver tips to 190 berger hunting VLDs this year in my WSM. Record groups had me very optimistic but terminal performance has me concerned and about to switch to something else. My hunting partners 400 yard bull elk went right down from a neck shot with a 168 vld ( he switched after seeing my groups) but did not exit or do much damage really. We where a bit surprised but not panicked. I filled a cow elk tag at 360 yards shooting what I thought would be a perfect double lung and she did go down after one jump but was still moving her head and trying to get back up several minutes later and I could not stand to watch any more so with her laying quartering away with her neck up- head tilted down I put around right behind her jaw in line with the brain and she flopped over still. I ran up the hill to my truck down the road two miles, filled two canteens with water and headed back. Started working my way down looked over and much to my horror she was STANDING there bleeding in the same spot I thought she had already expired. She was facing the opposite direction as the first shot which gave me yet another broad side shot and that ended this fiasco but left me vary concerned to discover the 190 vld leaving the muzzle @ 2875fps failed to penetrate @360 one lung from each side and a head shot which landed as intended did not make it threw. With data galore and dear season upon me, I decided to use them for dear. Foolishly taking my first and last high shoulder shot on a four point muley @200 yards which broke his back and sent him crawling @20 mph across the hill side where I was able to slip a second round just over his heart and end it. None got away, but the front meat of the dear is now a salvage op and my string of one shot kills has bean ended. Elk@360 Dear@200 too close or just too soft a jacket for hunting? Very accurate just not effective like others I have used. Tell me this is not normal.