input wanted!!!

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by dpevey, Mar 31, 2012.

  1. dpevey

    dpevey Member

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    So I've had the desire to get into long range shooting for the past 3 years but am just now able to afford everything. I've decided on a Remington 700 CDL SF in 257 weatherby mag. For some reason Im amazed with this caliber. I also plan to put a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x50mm scope on it. Since I only hunt in the South-East, my absolute longest shot would be inside of 500 yards, still a long way off for me. My questions are: what are y'alls thoughts on jewel triggers and talley scope mounts. Theres a gunsmith in Millen, GA that ive heard good things about, the shop is called Collier Rifles. Any input on him? i plan to let him install the trigger, pillar bed, and glass bed the stock. Does anyone else have any more recommendations? Ive thought long and hard about this rifle and have finally saved up enough to have all of this done so i want it done right. Also, depending on accuracy, i may get him to blue print the action as well.
    Thanks guys
     
  2. Nimrod

    Nimrod Well-Known Member

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    The Jewel is a fine trigger, I have never worked with the .257 Weatherby so I can't offer any input on it. I have a 700 CDL that I like very much, it needed bedding/pillars and floating to do it's best with the factory barrel but that was very good. Never heard of Collier Rifles but that doesn't mean anything, I don't get around much any more. I personally would not spend the $$ to have a receiver blueprinted unless I was having a new barrel screwed in too. The Talley rings and bases have a lot of good press.

    Sounds like a nice rig, good luck!
     

  3. johnnyk

    johnnyk Well-Known Member

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    dpevey,
    Good caliber, rifle and scope. Should be a great set-up for putting the smack on those SC whitetails. I have a .25-06 and it's absolutely terminal, so the .257 Weatherby is more of a good thing. Those 115gn Berger VLD's and/or 115gn Ballistic Tips are sweet. I've tried lighter bullets and they are effective also.
    Joe Collier: great guy! He does excellent work from what I see. I had him bed my Savage 112 VLP in 6.5-284Norma and it turned out great. I stopped by there 2-3 weeks ago to chit chat and see how he was doing and he let me shoot a couple of rifles with him. One, a 7STW and the other was a .260AI. Wow! talk about a down to earth guy. He know's his way around rifles. I don't think you'll be disappointed.
    JohnnyK.
     
  4. dpevey

    dpevey Member

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    Thanks for the input guys. I hope to make it a long range tack driver. At least until I can get a fully customized GA Precision rifle:D... I would like to pick yalls brain for a minute though ha ha. I've been looking at the Leupold mark 4 ER/T scopes. My question is would a scope with target turrets and mil dot reticles be practical. I know they're first focal plane which I've heard is a big plus. For me however, scopes like that are somewhat overwhelming. Could anyone explain the positives and negatives for a scope like that and break it down so I understand the full function of them. I'm just a southern boy whose always had "traditional" scopes lol. Looking forward to hearing both yalls knowledge and opinions.
    Thanks
    David
     
  5. grit

    grit Well-Known Member

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    Dave,
    Long range scopes need a couple capabilities. I'll lay 'em out for you.

    1.Good turrets / knobs. As a rule, we dial in our elevation changes. This means we dial for the distance. You want rugged, clearly marked turrets with positive clicks. The knobs need to be big enough and textured enough to turn in hunting conditions. They need to be stiff so they don't turn accidentally. Small covered turrets tend to be too soft, difficult to manipulate, and you lose the damn caps.

    2. Good tracking. This means if you dial the scope for a 1000 yard shot, then back to zero, the crosshairs move where they are supposed to, every time. This is the heart of a long range scope.

    3. Parallax adjustment. Basically, crosshairs are focused for a particular range. Most typical hunting scopes are set around 150 - 200 yards. To illustrate the idea look through a scope at something close to you, say ten yards. Now move your head just a bit. It will appear the crosshairs move all over the place. Where would the bullet hit? Parallax is dealt with in two ways. One is an adjustable objective, the other is a side focus knob. Simply turn the knob to the appropriate shot distance and the bullet will hit where intended.

    4. Enough elevation adjustment. The scope needs to have enough travel to hit whatever range you want to shoot at. Most long range scopes have enough elevation adjustment to shoot magnum calibers to a mile or so.

    5. A good adjustment system. We compensate for the range using several systems. Minute of angle, Mil, and bullet drop compensation systems are the most common. You can check out the particulars of each system. I use MOA, or minute of angle almost exclusively because it is very flexible and intuitive. It's a good idea to shop for a scope with matching turrets and reticle. For example, minute of angle turrets and reticle, or mil turrets and reticle.

    From this point, everything else is gravy. Some scopes offer illuminated reticles, big tubes, big objectives, threaded bells for scope covers... You can choose first or second focal plane. This means either the reticle for a particular system will visually remain the same size at all magnification and work at only one power setting, or the reticle will visually change size according to magnification and work on all power settings.

    I know it's a bit to absorb. Don't hesitate to keep asking questions. Cheers.
     
  6. dpevey

    dpevey Member

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    My only concern with that type of scope is making in field adjustments. Does it become second nature once you shoot them a while? I know practice is the only way to truly prepare. Until recently I didn't feel they were practical for hunting.
     
  7. grit

    grit Well-Known Member

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    Dave, it becomes second nature very quickly. Initially, there's a bit to learn. There are several people who teach classes on here. I do, Defensive Edge does, Darrel Holland does, Ward Brien, SSG.... Defensive Edge produces a great how to video. Best way to get all the info laid out clear and concise, and you can watch it as many times as you like.
     
  8. dpevey

    dpevey Member

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    Thanks for all the info Grit. Where would I find the info on the classes and video?
     
  9. nateisw

    nateisw Well-Known Member

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    While I can't speak for all of Talleys products, I have their lightweight alloy scope mounts (which have integrated rings) on my hunting rig and I think they're great!
     
  10. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    +1 for the Tally's. I have them on two of my LR rigs and they work well. For your application of 500 yards or less, the 257 Weatherby will work well. It's a great candidate for a ballistic Reticle with the high velocity, flat shooting characteristics of the cartridge. You don't have to go overboard on scope capability for the range you will be operating at. My buddy has a 257WM with a Leupold Boone and Crockett 4.5x14 and nothing is safe inside 500 yards.
     
  11. dpevey

    dpevey Member

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    Thanks for all the replies! I definitely should've joined sooner! Also what would y'all say is the maximum range for the 257 weatherby? Our deer down here are usually on the small side. I know they say 900 ft-lbs is needed to kill a deer but I'd think when you get past 500 yards the caliber starts to come into play as well
     
  12. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    You could surely kill a deer further out than 500 yards, but even though your energy is higher than 900 ft/lbs, I would consider the practical limit at 500-600 yards. You're correct, bullet diameter does come into play. A formula based on Bells knock out formula has been adapted to determine effectiveness of light HV bullets.

    (Bullet diameter x velocity at target x bullet weight) / 7000= KO

    For a Nosler 110 gr BT at 500 yards:

    (.257x2330x110) / 7000= 9.4KO at 500 yards.

    Compare a 308, 165 gr BT at 500 yards:

    (.308x1916x165)/700= 13.9KO

    A factor of 10 for big deer, 15 for elk are supposed to be minimums. This formula,
    originally designed for use with solids, seems to work in cases where standard energy values can be misleading, because of the effect of very high velocity using smaller diameter light bullets, being incapable of clean kills even though the energy value is considered sufficient. The formula accounts for bullet diameter and seems to be a decent alternative to using the standard energy formula commonly used. However, none of these formula take bullet performance into account.
     
  13. grit

    grit Well-Known Member

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    Defensiveedge.net for the videos and to check out his classes.

    For info on my class send me a PM.
     
  14. dpevey

    dpevey Member

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    So I've come across a dilemma guys, I got to thinking about stuff and I'm kinda thinking about a Remington 700 Sendero SF II in 7mm Rem mag. With the 257 weatherby I wanted to get another stock and all that. The sendero comes with the HS Precision stock. I'd actually save money by going with it. I don't do to well with recoil so that's why Im thinking 7mm vs the 300's offered in the sendero. Any suggestions? Sorry to change my mind up. I just wanna make sure I'm getting the gun I really like ya know. Especially since it'll be a while before I can afford another one. Thanks guys.
    David