input on 700 barrel bedding

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by ballistx, Aug 2, 2011.

  1. ballistx

    ballistx Well-Known Member

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    I have an old 30-06 that I have used for 30 years of hunting. It is average in accuracy (1.5" @ 100). Looking to improve the accuracy. Many eons ago a friend bedded the action. From what I can see he did a very good job. I was quite unfamiliar with bedding, etc. at that time so just took it and shot it.

    Now that I am getting more serious about accuracy, I am looking to see what I can do to possibly improve the accuracy.

    When I removed the action I noted that the barrel was bedded to about 1.5". Then it is free floated to the end of the stock where there is a barrel pad bedded in. That is where I have my main questions.

    If I am going to try and improve the accuracy, I would believe that I would start by removing the barrel bedding and go from there. But I hesitate to remove the bedding and find that it was beneficial.

    I also will need to work on some loading for it. I will be limiting my loads to RP cases and 165 grain Nosler Partition bullets. I will work with the powder, etc. to develop the load. But if the barrel bedding is going to be a problem, I would like to address it first.

    I do have 2 other 700 stocks on a 270 and 25-06 that I could substitute for testing purpose. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2011
  2. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    A lot of rifles respond ok to a pressure point near the fore-end of the stock. I suppose this helps dampen vibrations. However, it can present other problems as environmental conditions cause the pressure to fluctuate. And, any change in the resting position or pressure on the stock is easily transferred to the barrel to the detriment of consistency/accuracy.

    As such, I recommend replacing the stock or removal of the pressure point followed by a good load workup which should result in harmonics that work well with your fully free floated barrel.

    It's extremely likely that you can attain better than 1.5 MOA accuracy with your barrel free floated.

    -- richard
     

  3. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    How is your rifle on first shot ? Does it hold zero for the first shot and then start to walk?

    What direction is it walking (if it is)?

    For many years remington used a rest/pressure point at the far end of the fore end to help retard barrel harmonics. I've never seen one that shot well however until it was completely free floated.

    Most people I know will have the bedding extend about 2-3" in front of the recoil lug. For most that works well but each rifle is different.

    I think where I'd suggest starting would be to relieve the stress point at the fore end and go ahead and pillar bed it.

    I'm assuming since it's an older model we're talking about a wood stock? Correct?

    They will move quite a bit due to changes in weather. One thing I noticed about the plastic/composit factory stocks is that they have a tremendous amount of flex in them.

    With the wood stocks I used just rout out a channel from the recoil lug to almost the end of the fore end and then glass in a piece of 1/2" aluminum angle or make a T out of two pieces of 1/2" flat metal and glass it in.

    With the plastic stocks I found it real easy to stiffen them up by filling the void with epoxy mixed with steel dust from a chop saw.

    With either of the above you take out the possibility of having a nice free floated barrel that then gets pushed by using bags/bipod or just due to weather changes.
     
  4. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    One other thing I'd suggest is trying a different bullet. The Partition has a flat base and not a particularly decent BC in that weight.

    Hornady Interlock/Interbond or Barnes TSX or even Nosler Ballistic tips in the 168-180gr range should give you much better results.
     
  5. baldhunter

    baldhunter Well-Known Member

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    The bedding job may look fine,but your action may still be stressed.Loosen the screws and tighten them back up while holding the stock in the action area.It should feel like it's solid when you tighten the screws.If it feels like it's bending,you may need to re-bed it.Another thing to check is,see how far off the point of impact is,once the stock was removed and reinstalled.The point of impact should be very close.If it's way off,you've got issues.
     
  6. ballistx

    ballistx Well-Known Member

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    It is a wood stock. Will play with the remove and reinsert tonight and see what it feels like. But recall, it is very solid when reinstalling the action.

    I have seen the warp so concur on the removal of the front pad. Can always build it back up if that is necessary. Not looking for a competition rifle, just want to get it in the 3/4" consistent range.

    Will stick with the Nosler Partition unless I find it will not group at all. I am much more interested in terminal effects than the "N'th" degree of accuracy. I have had 30 years experience with the Nosler Partitions and have never had one do less than ideal on expansion and penetration.

    What has been your experience with loads for 165 grain bullets? I have always used 4064 powder in it, but that was then and this is now.

    Thanks for the input. All good.
     
  7. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    I can't help you with 165gr loads. The last 06's I loaded were 180's and that was about 25yrs ago. I loaded up a thousand for my dad and he's still shoooting them.

    The 165's compared to the 180's look pretty terrible when you compare sectional density and ballistic coefficients.

    30-06 Springfield - 165 Grain Load Data

    30-06 Springfield - 180 Grain Load Data

    If you are stuck on the partitions you just have to accept that ballistically you are shooting an inferior bullet. Both the ballistic tips and ballistic silver tips are much better choices ballistically and in terminal performance unless you are trying to shoot through the shield of a big boar, kill a big bear, or put one through the shoulders of an Elk at 800yds.

    The lower bc's and sd's of the 165's as compared to the 180's across the board just mean that you're going to have a harder time getting any precision at long range and with the Partition, you are adding an additional variable because the flat based bullets just don't stabilize as well as the boat tails and thus will tend to produce more erratic groups.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  8. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmmm Very Possible to make it worse than it is if you do not know what you are doing. Something to think about..
     
  9. ballistx

    ballistx Well-Known Member

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    In 40 years of hunting I have only recovered one bullet. That was a Speer 165 grain from a Mulie buck at about 50 yards. It came apart. That is the only one shot with anything but a Partition. One year we took 33 deer and antelope on one hunt in Wyoming at ranges from 15 yards to 600+ yards. All 1 shot and all were complete pass throughs. Hunting Idaho, Wyoming, SD, MN, NM I have used the 30-06 (165) and 243 (100) exclusively. Even with the 243 on Mulie at 600+ yards it was a complete pass through from above/behind, through the spiine & brisket.

    That being said, SD isn't a concern to me since it is primarily a function of penetration and none of the Partitions have stopped in the animal.

    Since the shots will be 600 yards or less any advantage of the boat tail is offset by the flat base being as, or more, accurate at shorter ranges. Again, BC is not that much of an issue as wind and drag have less pronounced effect within the 0-600 yard window.

    In every instance of bear, whitetail, mulie, elk, antelope, I have had one, and only one, result with the Nosler partion. It goes in the size of the caliber and comes out the size of a quarter. ALWAYS. EVERY TIME!

    So, if it is considered that the Nosler Partision is an "inferior" bullet ballistically, it makes up for it in terminal effect in spades!

    So, I hope that other things I get "stuck with" are as satisfying, fullfilling of their task, and as confidence building as it has been gettiing "stuck" with the Nosler Partitions.

    I will be the first one to admit that there are other bullets out there now that may match the results of the NP's and have better BC, SD, or be prettier. But I can't see where any one of them would be of any benefit or have any advantage over the NP.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  10. ballistx

    ballistx Well-Known Member

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    Range report: Due to the number of inputs that the 30-06 Remington 700 shoots best with the barrel free floated, I decided to go ahead and remove the bedding at the end of the forearm. Worked up the loading with IMR4350 and the 165 grain Speer HOTCOR. Guess what. Ended at 57.5 grains of iMR4350 with .5" group. Will now load a few more at that and see if it is consistant.

    I also free floated the 270 Remington 700 but got to 55 grains of IMR4350 behind the 130 grain Speer HOTCOR. The groups were improving and no signs of pressure. So, back to the bench and load some a little heavier and see if the group keeps shrinking.

    But now it looks like the 270 will end up being the backup on the Oryx hunt and the 30-06 will have first seat. I feel totally comfortable that either is adequate. But having used that 30-06 for neigh onto 40 years, it just fits better.

    After I get the 270 settled, the next will be the 700 in 25-06. Have a load of 51 grains of H4831 and the 120 grain that works OK. But would like to find one with the IMR4350. Last time I had it out I let a chap from the UK shoot it. He is in security but can't own the firearms and doesn't get a chance to shoot much. He went through about $150 worh of ammo between pistols and rifles. Anyway, he shot a cloverleaf with it at 100 yards. So, can't really do any better. Just have to try and do as good.
     
  11. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    Shilen trigger is the next step if yours can't be adjusted acceptably/safely. $100 at midway.
     
  12. ballistx

    ballistx Well-Known Member

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    I have been able to get all of my Rem 700's plus the 788 down to from 2 1/2 lb to 3 lb which is what I want for hunting. But that sounds like a good price.
     
  13. newmexkid

    newmexkid Well-Known Member

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    No help here but, that .270 load you ended up with is exactly what I use. Itty, bitty tiny groups.