I'm stumped!

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by arthurj, Apr 3, 2005.

  1. arthurj

    arthurj Well-Known Member

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    I\'m stumped!

    Hey guys, I posted a week ago about my sizing die. I wasn't getting enough shoulder bump from my redding body die. The caliber is 308. I must be doing something wrong, I have the wilson drop in headspace gauge. I put the bottom of the caliper on the neck end of the gauge and the other end of the caliper on the head of the shell. My measurement after two firings is 2.008. When I run the shell as far into the die as it will go, I get the same headspace measurement afterwards and when I try to chamber the shell the bolt is very hard to close. I thought of having some of the die shaved off but instead I replaced it, getting the same result. Could my chamber be short, or what am I doing wrong? It's just a factory rem vsf Thanks in advance
     
  2. 3sixbits

    3sixbits Well-Known Member

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    Re: I\'m stumped!

    [ QUOTE ]
    Hey guys, I posted a week ago about my sizing die. I wasn't getting enough shoulder bump from my redding body die. The caliber is 308. I must be doing something wrong, I have the wilson drop in headspace gauge. I put the bottom of the caliper on the neck end of the gauge and the other end of the caliper on the head of the shell. My measurement after two firings is 2.008. When I run the shell as far into the die as it will go, I get the same headspace measurement afterwards and when I try to chamber the shell the bolt is very hard to close. I thought of having some of the die shaved off but instead I replaced it, getting the same result. Could my chamber be short, or what am I doing wrong? It's just a factory rem vsf Thanks in advance

    [/ QUOTE ] So, let me get this straight. If you wipe the case off and drop it in the Wilson headspace guage is it above or below the top of the measuring tool? Or does it drop below the top of the tool? Does it drop below the recess? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
     

  3. arthurj

    arthurj Well-Known Member

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    Re: I\'m stumped!

    It is still above the upper level of the guage. Once fired is in between the steps as it should be, then after 2 firings it is above the top of the guage. After sizing it is still above.
     
  4. 3sixbits

    3sixbits Well-Known Member

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    Re: I\'m stumped!

    [ QUOTE ]
    It is still above the upper level of the guage. Once fired is in between the steps as it should be, then after 2 firings it is above the top of the guage. After sizing it is still above.

    [/ QUOTE ] From your first post you said that you are using a body die. Does this die have a shoulder inside the die body? Do you have a regular full length sizer die?
     
  5. 3sixbits

    3sixbits Well-Known Member

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    Re: I\'m stumped!

    Oh, I forgot to add that the Wilson gauge is made to be used to set your sizing die with. that means that you have to size the case to use the die. I reread your post and I missed that the first time around. Sorry.
     
  6. JD

    JD Active Member

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    Re: I\'m stumped!

    Had the same thing happen couple years ago. Called Redding and sent it in with 3-4 once fired cases. Got it back and was still the same. Had a buddy take 20 thousandths off the base and its good to go.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: I\'m stumped!

    Have you tried a different shell holder??? Yours may be to thick........I have one shellholder that is thicker than all the other shellholders I have and it causes the problem you are describing......the die can't size the case enough before it bottoms on the shellholder.........
     
  8. larrywillis

    larrywillis Well-Known Member

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    I\'m not stumped

    Arthurj,
    What you're dealing with here is a problem with case width, not headspace (length). The Wilson case gauge is an excellent tool to use for measuring case headspace, but it doesn't check to see if a case is too wide. To verify this, measure your cases just above the web. Then measure a new case and compare them. Don't shave anything off your die, because that will create another problem.

    - Innovative
     
  9. arthurj

    arthurj Well-Known Member

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    Re: I\'m not stumped

    An unfired case width and a twice fired width only differed by .002. So are you saying that the die is squeezing the body in which is in turn extending my headspace? How would shaving some of the die off not fix this problem? What is the solution to this problem? Thanks a lot
     
  10. 3sixbits

    3sixbits Well-Known Member

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    Re: I\'m not stumped

    [ QUOTE ]
    An unfired case width and a twice fired width only differed by .002. So are you saying that the die is squeezing the body in which is in turn extending my headspace? How would shaving some of the die off not fix this problem? What is the solution to this problem? Thanks a lot

    [/ QUOTE ] I sure am until I hear the answers to the questions I posted. This sounds like you have a couple of dies that can not push the shoulder back! These body dies are they able to push the shoulder back? How are they different than a full length sizer?
     
  11. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    Re: I\'m not stumped

    A competition shellholder set or shaving .010" of the mouth of the die will more than likely solve the problem. If the die is not bumping the shoulder back "measurably" with it hard against the shellholder, it is not able to do part of its job. Shaving .010 off will certainly not hurt anything either, unless you are already capable of bumping the shoulder back a substantial amount, which does not seem the case here. Chances are it is just coming in contact with the shoulder or pressing on it slightly, just not enough to move it far enough so it overcomes the springback quality of the brass. They (Redding) are usually not off by that much and .010 will probably work fine. Take .010 off a shellholder if you think it's the base dia. that may be too tight. Smoke the case up good over a candle and chamber it to see where it's tight.

    Generally bolt lift will be steadily hard and on the extraction cam it will pop right open if it a is tight compressed fit zero headspace condition. If rotating the bolt up just the extraction cam is very stiff, having difficulties extracting the case, the base is tight. Keep in mind, headspace could also be tight in this condition but difficult extraction points to a tight base, lack of it does not.
     
  12. dcb

    dcb Well-Known Member

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    Re: I\'m not stumped

    why not smoke a case chamber it and see where it is binding in the chamber athen start from that?
     
  13. LB

    LB Well-Known Member

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    Re: I\'m not stumped

    [ QUOTE ]
    An unfired case width and a twice fired width only differed by .002. So are you saying that the die is squeezing the body in which is in turn extending my headspace? How would shaving some of the die off not fix this problem? What is the solution to this problem? Thanks a lot

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Are you new to handloading? How (exactly) did you come up with a twice fired case? Does that case belong to someone else? Can you see (at least some) partial neck resizing? Did you trim the necks to length? Did you outside neck trim? Can you feel the expander ball, on the upstroke? Downstroke? What is your overall length? It's possible the headspace gauge is confusing you. What is the mfg. & width of your shell holder?

    Good hunting. LB
     
  14. arthurj

    arthurj Well-Known Member

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    Re: I\'m not stumped

    Sorry guys, I had a meeting after work and didn't get home until late. I will smoke the case in the morning to check where it is contacting the chamber. I'm also going to call redding to see what they can do, have them trim the die down if it needs it. From everyone's input it seems that's my problem. Whether the die is touching the shoulder or not, it surely isn't bumping it back at all. I have only been handloading for a year, but I can feel the expander, upstroke, downstroke, etc. Everythings trimmed right, and even if the problem were the guage, the shell should chamber easier than it does. If you could feel how hard it is to close the bolt, you would know something was wrong!