If the 87gr Berger doesn't neither will a ?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Iron Worker, Jan 3, 2011.

  1. Iron Worker

    Iron Worker Well-Known Member

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    Reports are in from shooters shooting coyotes with Bergers new 87gr VLD stating the bullet doesn't open up. Well I've been shooting 90gr Nosler BT out of my 6x284 pushing them out at nearly 3500 FPS I bet those won't open up on coyotes either ? What say ye ?
     
  2. mcseal2

    mcseal2 Well-Known Member

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    I was the one posting that the 87gr Bergers don't expand well on coyotes. I've shot 2 with them and they perform nearly identical to the 95gr berger VLD I tried in the past.

    Here is my theory on terminal performance with the polymer tip bullets and bergers from my experience shooting them.

    A berger VLD is designed to penetrate 2-3" before beginning dramatic expansion. 2-3" is pretty deep into a broadside coyote. At longer ranges and reduced velocity you will also get less expansion. These bullets do great on deer because a deer has a deeper chest for the bullet to expand in and absorb all that energy. I've never had a deer go over 20ft after being hit with one, and never had one exit. I wasn't sold on them as a deer bullet yet last season, but after seeing the results repeated this year they are my favorite deer bullet from the 6mm.

    Polymer tip varmint bullets like the v-max or ballistic tip varmint do essentially the same thing to a coyote. They begin expanding quicker and more dramatically so that the energy is expended within the coyote's smaller body and the bullet does not exit. I've seldom had a coyote take a step after absorbing a solid hit with one of these bullets. The polymer tip initiates expansion on contact where the sleek shape and small hollowpoint of the Berger don't start expanding as fast.

    Both are made to expand fully in the size game they are intended for so the energy is kept within the animal and they are killed very fast by the massive internal wound channel and shock, and they do this very well on that size animal.

    Polymer tip hunting bullets also expand dramatically on impact, but don't fragment like a varmint bullet. They have a tapered jacket to hold the core together for increased penetration. I like them best for predators because they start a large wound channel faster than the bergers creating major trauma along the entire wound channel. They will then retain weight and exit, expending energy on the far side of the animal. Where an average bobcat will be shredded by a 75gr V-max exiting because it doesn't have the mass to absorb that bullets expansion, a hunting bullet will not fragment and will leave a more managable exit wound.

    I like the polymer tip hunting bullets the best for an all purpose bullet because they expand fast to a certain extent and then hold that mushroom to exit. The other designs are ideal for a certain size game, but are less versatile.

    Back to the original question:

    I've shot several coyotes with the 90gr ballistic tip from the same short barrel 243 I shoot the Bergers through. They will open but won't blow up at my velocity of 3000fps. I shot a coyote at 800yds with that bullet last year and it had pretty much the same exit wound as ones shot at 200yds. That is the best all-purpose bullet I've found for the 243 yet for terminal performance. It would not be my pick for any one thing, but it does pretty good on everything. I just wish it had a better BC for long range shooting in the wind. The 75gr V-max has a BC nearly as good and I can push it 400fps faster accurately. Nosler is coming out with a 90gr accubond with a little better BC, .379 from what I've read, that I will try also when it arrives. At your velocity I don't know if the ballistic tip will hold together, a bonded bullet may work better, I've never pushed them that fast. The polymer tipped bonded bullets work great in my larger rifles for coyotes, they open fast for shock and then exit with a reasonable exit wound. I am experimenting with some higher BC options also, the 90gr Scirocco(.420) and 85gr Interbond(.395) but haven't got great accuracy with either. I'm building a 24" barrelled 6mm Rem that I plan to run 85-90gr bullets through at faster velocities. I will also have to try the Bergers again at the higher speeds to see how they work with more velocity.

    The search continues.
     

  3. Iron Worker

    Iron Worker Well-Known Member

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    I once shot a coyote at 40 yds with a 80gr BT out of my 6x284. It was a super hot load,that bullet was doing 3800+ all the bullet did was create an entrance and exit wound the size of a pencil. Hit that coyote broad side in the chest area. Coyote made a 180 and died. Well going out tomorrow morning hopefully a coyote will volunteer for a bullet test.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  4. Firecat

    Firecat Well-Known Member

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    Iron, I hope that you find a test specimen tomorrow as well. I would be surprised if those ballistic tips did not perform well on coyotes. An 80 grain bullet is my bullet of choice for coyote hunting in my 6mm rem. I have seen some dramatic exits with that weight range of bullets. Good luck and let us know of your results. Worst case scenario is that you use the BT's for deer and find a varmint load that works. I agree with the above that there is no one bullet for every task. Usually quite the opposite unfortunately.
     
  5. Iron Worker

    Iron Worker Well-Known Member

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    I did find a Rabbit to volunteer . He or she was 50 yds away,any how upon impact the rabbit blew up ! Bullet is missing and assumed to be in critical condition.