Hunting drop charts?

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by chad44, Jul 2, 2013.

  1. chad44

    chad44 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    148
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    I have been shooting long range for two years now but haven't hunted long range yet. I have a few questions. First I'm wondering about the G7 ballistic program. I like being able to verify my ballistics. But haven't done this yet. I have always used my phone for it and don't want to have to rely on a battery during a week long hunt. When printing off the range card how do you know what temp/pressure you be in? In September the temp can go from low 30s to 70s. Also the elevation can rise/fall 1000 feet. Do you just take several different papers with?
    Thanks
     
  2. D1mens1onsh00ter16

    D1mens1onsh00ter16 Active Member

    Messages:
    28
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    you can fit a lot of info on one sheet. I have seen guys put bullet drop by temp from the 20's to the 100's from 100 yards to 1000 all on one sheet and laminated it.
     

  3. MMERSS

    MMERSS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    912
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    I use range cards with Density Altitude every 1000 ft. I will bring four or five depending on the day. You will need a program or weather station (Kestrel 4000) that will convert pressure, temp and dew point to the associated air density.

    If current DA is 2300, pull out your 2000 card. Change cards corresponding to the current DA with temperature and/or elevation changes. Cards are a great backup to verify your computer generated G7 solution.
     
  4. cohunter14

    cohunter14 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    819
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    This is similar to what I did. I put it all on an excel spreadsheet so I know how many more/less clicks I have at different temperatures as well as altitudes. Having it on one sheet is a lot easier than fumbling through 15 different ones.
     
  5. D1mens1onsh00ter16

    D1mens1onsh00ter16 Active Member

    Messages:
    28
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Yeah it seems to work great for those guys. I will do the same once I get data out of the new rifle. I will also put the avg temp during whitetail season from 100 to about 500 yards under my flip up lens cap for a very quick reference. I do not need to worry about elevation since there will not be enough of an elevation variation to make a difference.
     
  6. Canadian Bushman

    Canadian Bushman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,650
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    +1 to dimension. I think its important to consider applicable range with your skill and equipment. I shoot a 308 with fairly temperature stable powder, and wont attempt a shot on a game animal over 6-7 hundred yards. So i dope my load in the fall, which is about when i do most hunting and is between weather extremes here in texas. After a year or so with this load im pretty confident with making small adj according to weather, so i only carry one dope chart.

    If your shooting around 1k+ or just pushing the limits of your equipment you may need to be much more particular.
     
  7. Richard Owl Mirror

    Richard Owl Mirror Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    92
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2013
    Hello Everyone,

    As many of you may know by now, I am new to firearms and hunting.
    In fact this season will be the first time every for me to go hunting. (55 yrs old)
    I just purchased a Weatherby Vanguard 2 .270 caliber Rifle and bought a Vortex Diamondback 3-9x40 scope for it.

    On the VORTEX OPTICS website they include a Long Range Ballistic Calculator.
    I really don't understand this information much as I've just begun to use it.
    Lucky for me, besides allowing you to input your own data for those who reload their ammunition, they also include a drop-down box for standard ammunition which then populates the information accordingly.

    I have been trying it out just to see what information it provides and I noticed something perhaps one of you could explain.
    I first input the weather conditions for Today (July 10, 2013) which is 100 degrees, no wind, no moisture.
    It indicated that the bullet drop would be 5.5" at 400 yards.
    I then input weather information showing the temperature at 35 degrees, a 10 mile an hour wind from left to right and 50% humidity. That change re-calibrated the bullet drop to 5.7" at 400 yards.

    I'm assuming that isn't all that great of a drop between 100 yds. and 400 yds. but, I was wondering if it is the temperature which made this drop occur?

    I also found this website for Weather History which allows you to go back in time to say, last years opening day to see what the Temp. and Winds and Humidity were like on average.
    I thought it might be a good tool to see what I might expect on average for this years upcoming season.

    Anyways, does the colder temperatures account for a larger Bullet Drop ?

    Being new to hunting and Firearms, I am practicing at 100 yds. and 200 yds. range and can't see myself shooting any further than 400 yds. what with my skill set being new.

    The VORTEX Diamondback Riflescopes I purchased comes with a Dead-Hold BDC reticle.

    BTW, the reason I decided on the Vortex was due to their outstanding Warranty.
    Unlimited Lifetime Warranty
    Fully transferable
    No warranty card to fill out
    No receipt needed to hang on to
     

    Attached Files:

  8. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,191
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Colder air = denser air = more drag = less velocity out to 400 = longer time of flight and with gravity being constant that = more bullet drop.

    I think however that your moisture assumptions are way off. Hot air can hold a lot more moisture than cold air. You might have had 60-80% humidity at 100F and that may drop to 10-30% at 35F. If you add 10mph of direct cross wind the bullet is also going to be displaced sideways from the intended point of impact and this also lengthens the path the bullet travels slightly.

    If you want to learn about ballistics, try just changing 1 variable at a time instead of 3. Otherwise it can be very difficult to grasp what is going on. Try just changing the temperature through several steps. Then go back to the original condition and try changing just the elevation or barometric pressure. The try changing just the relative humidity.

    Then look on some weather sites for realistic weather conditions in hunting season and compare to your summer shooting conditions. Any time one actually does ballistic verification, it is essential that the weather conditions are all recorded since this data can be used to correct the original ballistic calculation to get the proper drop.
     
  9. Richard Owl Mirror

    Richard Owl Mirror Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    92
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2013
    Thank you very much. I didn't look-up any data for today. I just made the assumption that it wasn't raining so there was no moisture. I guess I need to understand weather much more than looking out the window ;>}

    I went to the rifle range for the first time on Sunday. First time ever firing a rifle !
    I had the scope mounted at the store I bought it from and all first 3 shots were within the bullseye. at 100 yards.
    I bought 3 boxes of ammo, one Winchester, One Remington and one Federal. I fired 10 rounds from each box and all hit the target in a tight pattern. So for my first time, with nobody showing me anything or assisting me I think I did pretty good.
    I know there is a lot I don't know but, hopefully I'll learn enough to hunt safely and be successful.

    Thanks again for the explanation.

     
  10. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,191
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Does your range have just 25, 50 and 100 yard ranges ? If so then you need to find another place to shoot where you can stretch it out to at least 300 yards. 400 is better but at least at 300 one is starting to get significant wind effects and will notice the benefit of higher ballistic coefficient bullets.

    As a new shooter, consider yourself lucky if you buy a factory rifle and it shoots great out the box. The odds are that the next 2 or 3 you buy might give you some headaches before you get them to perform, and some are only good as parts donors. Sad but true reflection on the firearm industry. Some companies test fire their weapons and provide the test target, but most US gunmakers do not.

    Out of 5 bolt action rifles so far, 1 was lousy (there was basically no good part in it), a second needed tweaking to the stock then shot good, the 3rd shot 1/2" groups from the first range visit (Savage 10 PC 223), the 4th had a barrel that was so full of chatter marks it should never have left the factory (TC Icon). It is now discontinued and the factory has refused to sell me parts. TC is now on my BAN list. The 5th shot reasonably good (1moa) but the barrel could not stabilize the bullets I wanted to shoot. The truth is that no factory gun is made that would do it so I spent $350 on a custom barrel (which was shipped to me in 3 days) and I sold the original barrel with 80 rounds fired for $180 so my total out of pocket for the upgrade was $170. I can now shoot 95 and 105gr VLDs (243) to 1/2 min groups.

    Since the 5th bolt gun, I now no longer buy new, I buy used actions and fit a match barrel from the getgo. That way I eliminate 95% of the headache associated with factory rifles in 1 move. The Savage donor rifles are often in the $300 price range (with accutrigger and stock) so unless I change the stock I usually end up with a match rifle for about $650. I try to be picky about the donors to get a good stock, it does not matter to me what condition the barrel is in or how many scrapes it has since I have it taken off in 5 minutes and factory barrels (except 26" varmint contour stainless barrels) are basically worthless. I have also yet to meet an accutrigger that I do not like. if I ever do, one can find takeoffs from people fitting aftermarket triggers for $60 as opposed to $200+ Remington or AR-15 triggers.

    So if you stay with it, don't expect a smooth ride. You are going to have to either develop some problem solving skills, or stick to custom actions and barrels which work as intended with intense focus on quality control which is virtually absent in factory rifles today.
     
  11. Richard Owl Mirror

    Richard Owl Mirror Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    92
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2013
    The range I joined for $30 per year has targets/gongs out to 800 yards.
    Being new, i tried to stay within the 100 - 200 yard range targets.
    I'm sure I'll make an attempt at the further targets once I get used to firing the rifle.
    Out of the 30 rounds so far, I only got bit by the scope once ;>}
    My fault as I didn't have the stock properly against my shoulder and, thankfully it hit my safety glasses so I only got a mark from one of the rivets that hold the nose bridge on the frame.

    If you look up NYE, MONTANA (one horse town) and look about 1 mile directly north of the town you can see the range on Google map.
    It's at an altitude of 5000 which is about where all my hunting will be done.
    Travel about 5 miles west and you'll be in the 10,000 altitude range.
    The Beartooth Mountain range.

    http://fwp.mt.gov/
    Hunting District 502
    Either-sex
    Mule Deer.
    Either-sex White-tailed Deer
    Antlerless Elk

    Hunting District 575
    Antlered Buck Mule Deer.
    Either-sex White-tailed Deer
    Antlerless Elk

    Hunting District 520
    Antlered Buck Mule Deer.
    Either-sex White-tailed Deer
    Antlered Bull Elk