Hunters in Montana/WI wolf fail

Discussion in 'Wolf Hunting' started by Coyboy, Dec 2, 2011.

  1. Coyboy

    Coyboy Well-Known Member

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    gun)I hunt out west and understand your disgust with the elk predation.
    But really your problem is so small to that of Wisconsins it is almost laughable.

    You all have the ability to take wolf managment into your own hands but very few do.

    Your land mass is at least 2.5 times that of WI, your human population is 1/5 of WI. Your Dept of wildlife has a budget and employment number that are over 50% less than what WI spend or employs.

    Your state list 2010 numbers of 566 animals in 108 packs
    Wisconsin list a minimum number of over 181 packs and 800+ animals. (winter numbers 2010) WOLF HAVE BEEN SIGHTED IN 55 OF OUR 72 COUNTIES.
    Yet ours' are still protected. Thanks to the liberal tree huggers in the souther half of the state, we will likly never have a hunt, remember WI was the birth place of the enviormental movement, Per capita we have more PETA than California.

    With deer being 1/4 the size of an elk what do you think the predation numbers are? We may have had the worst deer hunt in the northern half of WI in over 40 years.

    Thanks to a certain percentage of true conservationist I suspect we lost over 15% of our wolf population during the 9 day deer season. Thank you fellow deer conservationist. Look at the links below and notice the state termed illegal taking of wolves figures. I suspect these were mostly hybreed dogs shot in self defense as hunters delved into the timber.:rolleyes:

    Look at the wolf pack maps, I had a phone coversation with a fellow today with 4 wolves on his deer cam, he is well outside the listed area of any wolf pack. I suspect there is a gross under estimate of our wolf numbers, which may also be a issue in your state as well.

    We had a man killed this year by a wolf yes a single wolf, it was never widely reported, but over 75 miles from the nearest listed wolf pack. The man hit a wolf on his motorcycle killing both himself and the wolf.

    I have seen a wolf 30 yards behind my house in daylight in an open farm field setting. I have seen at least 12 more from my vehicle in the last half dozen years. I don't live in northern WI but in the central forest area, see map link. We are a heavily populated state look at the number of dog kills in the last year, it is pushing 50 and many were killed in the owners yard.

    Wi used to have some of the best public land deer hunting in the Nation, that has changed. If your planning a hunt here, you best think twice about a northern WI hunt on any land.





    Here are some good links showing the problems, notice in the second report the large % of wolves that are shot. Yet we have no season, are we feed up.

    HELL YA.


    Gray Wolf Distribution Map - 2010 - WDNR

    http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/er/publications/reports/pdfs/ER_report140.pdf?topic=mammals






    Table1. 2011 Dog Depredations by Wolves (listed by date)Date County Pack Dogs More Information
    3/10/11 Iron Morrison Creek 1 dog killed (Beagle, female, 3 years) Map/Info
    3/25/11 Ashland Magee Creek 1 dog killed (Collie, male) Info
    4/22/11 Taylor Chequamegon Waters 1 dog injured (Walker, female, 4 years) Map/Info
    5/27/11 Clark N/A 1 dog killed (Coonhound, male, 3 years) Info
    6/27/11 Washburn N/A 1 dog injured (Cocker Spaniel) Info
    7/10/11 Marinette Lake Noquebay 1 dog injured (mix, female) Info
    7/16/11 Douglas Ox Creek 1 dog killed (Walker, male 3 years) Map/Info
    7/23/11 Bayfield Delta 1 dog killed (Redtick, female, 3 years) Map/Info
    7/25/11 Bayfield Orienta 1 dog killed (Australian heeler, male, 1.5 years) Map/Info
    7/29/11 Ashland Black Lake 1 dog killed (Bluetick, female, 2.5 years) Map/Info
    8/2/11 Oconto Peshtigo Brook 1 dog killed (Black & Tan, male 8 years) Map/Info
    8/6/11 Washburn Tranus Lake 1 dog killed (Bluetick, female, 3 years) Map/Info
    8/11/11 Monroe Starlight 1 dog injured (Lab, female, 10 years) Map/Info
    8/15/11 Burnett Riverside 1 dog killed (Black & Tan, male, 7-8 years) Map/Info
    8/20/11 Douglas Moose Road 1 dog killed (Bluetick, male, 9 years) Map/Info
    8/23/11 Douglas Lake Nebagamon 1 dog killed (Walker, male, 2 years) Map/Info
    8/26/11 Rusk North Blue Hills 1 dog killed (Redbone, female, 9 years) Map/Info
    8/28/11 Douglas Lake Nebagamon 1 dog killed (Walker, female, 8 years) Map/Info
    8/30/11 Price Catawba 2 dogs killed (bear training hounds) Map/Info
    9/16/11 Bayfield Flag River 1 dog killed (Walker, female, 5 years) Map/Info
    9/17/11 Douglas Casey Creek 2 dogs injured (bear hunting hounds) Map/Info
    9/19/11 Oconto Peshtigo Brook 1 dog killed (Plott/Bluetick, female, 7 years) Map/Info
    9/28/11 Douglas Shoberg Lake 1 dog killed (Walker/Plott, male, 5 years) Map/Info
    10/22/11 Lincoln Ranger Island 1 dog injured (Walker, female, 3 years) Map/Info
     
  2. winmagman

    winmagman Well-Known Member

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    It is definatly a damn shame what Wi is doing or should I say not doing about the wolf problem. A small part of me would like to see the wolves eat all the deer just to see how the DNR gets along without the $12 million plus generated by the sale of deer licenses.

    Chris
     

  3. threejones

    threejones Well-Known Member

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    Coyboy, first, I truly feel for every hunter in your state. FWP in both our states are ruled by politics, money, and in 3rd place(if we're lucky) comes wildlife conservation. I think you may have some old info on our wolf numbers. Our estimated wolf population is closer to 1200, thus the hunting season for them. Another thing to consider is our size vs population. Just the chance of seeing a wolf out here is slim due to the miles and miles of inaccessable country. The fact that much of it is being closed to the public, and/or private, makes it much harder than you would think to get within shooting range. It's just a matter of too much dirt and not enough people to cover it. The fact is, that the majority of Montana hunters(especially us few native Montanans) are always on the lookout for "larger than usual coyotes" We just have a very difficult time covering enough territory. Nearly every over pickup you see around the Northwest has a "Smoke a Pack a day" bumper sticker(picture a cigarette pack with a wolf in the crosshairs instead of a Camel, they're awesome!) and a rifle behind the seat.

    Our problem is that to get rid of them in the first place took a huge effort ei- trapping, poisoning, commerial hunters, etc. Unfortunately, our geography makes it tough for those of us who buy our wolf tags in boxes of twenty to even make a dent in the population. We've seen what has happened in your state (and others) and we're all terrified that we're doomed to the same fate. I think you're right about the people in MT who are whining but not helping. If we were to ALL get togather, we'd have a much louder voice. But sadly, too many people are expecting someone else to do it.

    In the mean time, we all need to practice the 3 S's and pray. If you, or anyone else for that matter, would like a Sticker, pm me and I'll be happy to send you as many as you'd like(I've got some that say "my wolf tags come twenty to a box" with a picture of a Winchester looking box with a wolf on it). If anyone would like to come up and hunt em, pm me for that too. We still have till the end of Dec. to legally hunt em!

    PS, in also glad to see that more people are taking note of whats going on with our newest pest. Keep up the conservation! We're all behind you!
     
  4. zuba

    zuba Well-Known Member

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    So true Jim! A few years back there was an article in my grandparents local paper near Antigo about a logger who was chased back into a piece of machinery by a wolf. I woulf bet your guess of 15% is a good one, I wish it was a whole lot closer to 100%. I am only 28, but when I started hunting at 12 it was common to see 7 or 8 deer a day, now a rarely hunt the northwoods. I only bought a gun license this year because I was a 'mentor', but I can't justify killing one of the few deer left up there :(

    Threejones, you've got a pm :)
     
  5. Coyboy

    Coyboy Well-Known Member

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    I had a local guy come in on Friday and said he seen more wolves than deer, I asked how many he got, none he said they were moving to fast. He said he did find a dead one, thank you mistery man.

    The numbers I got were for 2010 from Montana F&G and WI DNR. But we all know those numbers are low likly for both states. Our numbers would indicate 4-5 wolves per pack. A reliable source to my north has seen 13 in one pack and another source 20miles east seen 7 in a pack. But the DNR will tell you all there estimates are winter numbers.

    They also write in there eco-hugger statements that wolfs fear humans and they eat 55% deer and the rest of there diet is Beavers, Snowshoe hairs, and mice.

    For Heavens sake do they think we are stupid, In 41 years I have seen 2 hairs in WI, and they are basically non existent in Central WI, Beavers OK may-be, but I'm on the town board and we are dealing with beavers plugging culverts all the time, there numbers are up not down. MICE for crying out load thats alot of mice, we should see them out in every grass feild all day long if they have to search that hard.

    AND they write one wolf consumes 20 deer per year, yea right, what about the thrill kills myself and others have found with no parts consumed or very few parts.
    I had a local guy come in with his SD card from a trail cammera, He put it on a wolf den, in 4 weeks starting from when the first fawns hit the ground he had 21 images of a fresh killed fawn being brought to the den, thats almost one a day for what turned out to be 4 pups. He regretfully had no pictures of Hairy Beavers.
     
  6. Gary Kaney

    Gary Kaney Well-Known Member

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    CoyBoy

    This is about twenty years ago. A friend of mine's daughter married and built a house up by Dodgeville. Her new hubby was studying to be a Game Biologist. Being the tree hugging booger picking bunny lover he was (and her also) He got himself an assignment for the summer tracking 2 collared pair around the Dodgeville area. According to Stacy's father they were brought in, and supposedly funded by insurance companies.
     
  7. Coyboy

    Coyboy Well-Known Member

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    That does not suprise me, 10+ years ago I talked to a guy from Lone Rock, his friend had a Hybreed for a pet and the DNR came in and took it said he didn't have the correct permit and they didn't want it breeding with any "real" wolves.

    Like the hybreeds pecker was 200 miles long, how could it do that if they weren't already there.
     
  8. threejones

    threejones Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like Fish and Wildlifes infinite wisdom shining through again. All the wolves they "reintroduced" around here are all Canadian Wolves, which are almost all, to some degree, wolf/dog hybrids. I know a guy in Libby that thought skunks or raccoons were stealing the dog food off his back porch at night, till he woke up at 3am to take a leak and saw a big black wolf chowing down on it... one less wolf in the world, but it proves that the "they have a natural fear of humans theory" is total BS. A hungry wolf will take down anything it thinks it can, a bored wolf will do just about the same thing.
     
  9. FAL Shot

    FAL Shot Well-Known Member

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    Coyboy,

    Start breeding Rottweilers to German Shepherds and you will have dogs large and aggressive enough to handle wolves. Take out your dogs in winter using cross country skis in thick forest where wolves live. Best on a moonlight night. Way to fight wolf pack is with a dog pack. The Russians used Borzoi to catch the wolf, as it is faster than a wolf and it was purpose bred to catch wolves. The Rottweiler/Shepherds will finish off any wolf, even a pack of them if they attack in a pack.

    Snowmobiles can't go through thick forest. Snowshoes are not as fast as skis. You will not find many DNR wardens that are world class cross country skiers. Call in the wolf and unleash the Borzoi. The Rottweiler/ Shepherds will not be far behind. You do not need a gun. Russians like to finish them off with a knife. They sell the hide.
     
  10. HARPERC

    HARPERC Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about 200 miles, but when you see the size some of these things are getting, you have to wonder if shetland pony was in their heritage. This is not endangered species it's a new species, that's rapidly replacing the old. Canada will regret the day this tide reverses and comes home twice as big.
     
  11. Coyboy

    Coyboy Well-Known Member

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    Thats funny, about the size thing, looking at the pictures from the out west hunters with their wolf kills, Some of them things are huge. I think our average wolf here is likly under 100 lbs. 70-90 would be my estimate of adult weight.

    But on occasion some one sees a monster, we assume they are just big old males, but may-be there is a little more to it. Hopefully they all do not share this charicteristic... yet.
     
  12. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    You haven't seen what's left of a Rottweiler when a wolf gets done with it!! Ain't much left, a pack of 120 lbs lion hounds that will rip coyotes limb from limb and not even brake a sweat won't make it more than a few seconds with these wolves.

    Walking with dogs will get a guy into a bad situation. We had several dogs killed this year while out with owners and the wolves had no fear of the human shooting at them, the wolves loose it with dogs near and they go into kill mode.
     
  13. FAL Shot

    FAL Shot Well-Known Member

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    Last spring, a big wolf and my Rottie Shepherd ran into each other on the trail while we were out walking. The wolf took one look and was out of there as fast as he could run.

    Rotties have long guarded animals from wolves. Goes back to the Roman times.

    A wolf pack would be another story, but my dog has went up against a pair of coyotes on a moonlight night. Coyotes ran as soon as he charged them.

    A pair of pit bulls attacked my rottie shepherd, and he took care of them in about 5 seconds.

    At 10 months of age, my rottie shepherd could jump into the back of my F-150 without lowering the tailgate. Try that with any other pups you might have around. He took down 5 mule deer in the past year by himself. The last one was in the river as it tried to get across. He had one mule deer trying to stomp him to death. He kept dodging the hooves until he found an opening then grabbed her by the neck and threw her down like a sack of potatoes. I pulled him off all 5 deer, and I expected they survived. However, he did kill one mule deer the year before in the city park.

    Rottweilers have the strongest bite in the world, stronger than a pit bull. A long snout dog like a German Shepherd is a good one to mix t a Rottie as it makes the mouth longer and better able to tear prey.

    If a Rottie Shepherd gets torn up by wolves, it was done by a wolf pack. One-on-one situation, the dog should win.