How to handle problems with gunsmith?

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by DUNEZRUNNER, Oct 31, 2013.

  1. DUNEZRUNNER

    DUNEZRUNNER Active Member

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    I have a Win Mod 70 in a 264 win mag. I am trying to get the gun ready for an upcoming Elk hunt that starts Nov 20th. I was at the range testing some loads and could not get the gun to shoot better than 2.5-3". After talking with my dad, we determined that the gun has anywhere between 600-1000 rounds through it( Bought new in 1969 and used regularly for deer). I began to think that the barrel might have finally worn out on me. I called around town and found a local gunsmith that had a borescope to check it out. He called me a little later and he said the throat was eroded about 1/2" and had some scratches up to around 1.5" into the bore. Said it had copper from the scratches. Suggested that we lapp the barrel to smooth the scratches and rough spots and pillar bed the action. I asked him if this would help and he said it should make a difference. I told him I needed the gun back Thursday (today) so I could finish getting it ready for my hunt. I arrive to pick the gun up today and find out that the rear receiver bolt had seized into the receiver and had to be drilled out and removed with vise grips. I not too happy. I pay and bring the gun home and make some calls and find a new bolt. After I get the bolt and go to install it, I take a flashlight and shine it down the freshly polished bore to look at the job. I see round rings about 1/4" from the muzzle from something spinning and it looks like corrosion by a lot of the rifling. Plus when I went to install the trigger guard onto the gun with the new screw the trigger guard did not sit flush on the stock and rocks due to a high spot created with from the bedding of the pillars. I'm not happy at all now. I have an appointment in the morning to discuss this with the smith and how to fix it.

    SO to my question: How should I go about handling this?

    I obviously want my money back for the work the work that he did to my gun, I am pretty sure the barrel is toast now.

    I am also thinking he should do something as far as getting me a new barrel. I am definitely not going to have him put the barrel on, but I think he should at least get me a new barrel so that I can have it installed by a competent gunsmith the right way.

    Does anyone have any opinions on this or gone through something similar to this.

    Thanks

    Thomas
     
  2. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Walk softly and carry a big stick.

    U shudda joined her sooner or asked here first. Would have saved you a ton of anguish.

    I wish you well.
     

  3. Joel Russo

    Joel Russo Official LRH Sponsor

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    If your barrel is that far gone, pillar bedding and lapping will not help you much. The issue with the trigger guard not sitting flush in the inlet is probably because he did not install the proper length pillars, or did not mill them correctly after the bedding.
     
  4. sinarms

    sinarms Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like shotty gunsmith if you could even call him that. Did he damage your barrel? Maybe, but that might be hard to prove. You can say that he did not do that work that you paid for and should be able to get all that money back. I would try for that and if you get that back you would be pretty lucky. Some crappy smiths think they are god and their work is the best. I would say he has no clue on what he is doing by having to long of pillars and getting the bolt stuck. I would look at finding another rifle because you won't get that straightened out before your hunt.
     
  5. Gunpoor

    Gunpoor Well-Known Member

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    Ditto on what sinarms posted. I think you should try to get a refund on what you paid this hack to do, but quite honestly I don't think any amount of tweaking could have made the Win shoot well. If you can get a refund, put the money towards a new rifle and save the old Win for a custom gun build in the future. Most of the over the counter rifles on the market shoot better than most shooters since the advent of CNC machining and therefore I don't think you will be hard pressed to find one that would work for you. I consider the Ruger American rifles to be the best bang for the buck these days. The American has a receiver machine from a steel billet and v-block action bedding. I have witnessed three shoots touching at 200 yds from one chambered in 30/06 with my own hand load recipe.
     
  6. DUNEZRUNNER

    DUNEZRUNNER Active Member

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    Thanks for all the replies. After I originally dropped the gun off for him to look at it, I came home and did a little research. I kind of think that the reason for some of my accuracy woes is due to me using the long 140 gr Accubond and my barrel having a 1 in 9" twist and not being able to stabilize the bullet. From what I found, to stabilize those bullets most people recommend a 1 n 8" twist barrel.

    On the trigger guard problem. It looks like the rear pillar might be a little long and some of the bedding compound is creating a high spot. It looks like he should have used bedding compound under the whole trigger guard to make sure it is all the same level.

    Thanks again for the help.

    Looks like I am probably going to go down and order a 338-378 Weatherby, unless there is a reason I should stay away from that gun too.

    Thomas
     
  7. DUNEZRUNNER

    DUNEZRUNNER Active Member

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    Pictures of my barrel

    Here are some pictures of the inside of my barrel.

    I talked to the gunsmith. I was told I was SOL.

    SO how bad is it? Or am I overreacting.

    I am going to go out tomorrow and shoot it and see what it does.

    thanks

    Thomas
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Joel Russo

    Joel Russo Official LRH Sponsor

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    How about some pics of the bedding, top and bottom...
     
  9. Bugholes

    Bugholes <b>SPONSOR</b>

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    If the rings you are seeing at the muzzle are in both the bore and the groove, it's likely they are button marks from the rifling process, you may have not seen this before because you had not scrutinized the barrel in the past (or the lapping could have cleaned away some long term fouling that has been covering these marks from view). If the barrel was indeed lapped, the frosting you see in the muzzle is likely from reversing the lap in the bore, best to cut an inch off the muzzle after the lapping- not possible with your front sight in place.
     
  10. stenger

    stenger Well-Known Member

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    No offense but that barrel is junk and probably was before you had the work done. That's why I don't do general gunsmithing because all kind of problems are found once you get them apart. I would have told you to re barrel the gun and prob change the stock but that ususlly takes six months.

    Send some pics of that bedding job.
     
  11. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    That end means nothing. It's the other end thats important (from the pictured scratches in the finish, I'd say she had a hard life anyway......

    You don't wait until it's almost hunting time to dissect a piece. You do that stuff in the spring..... just say'in.

    Hunting time is time to put farming equipment in the barn (after servicing of course). Equipment don't 'break in the barn' and that applies to guns as well.
     
  12. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

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    You tell 'em old timer!!....
     
  13. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Past timer actually....

    :):)
     
  14. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    +1

    I will not take sides because I have not heard both sides of the story.

    From my point of view - I always inspect the rifle very well and tell the customer the hard truth
    as to what it needs or what is wrong with it. The smith should have made it clear, based on what
    I see, that it was a waist of time and he should have made that clear.

    From the clients perspective- If you don't know, you just have to take the smiths word for it and sometimes this can be risky . So I tell everyone that I deal with the truth as I see it and that they will not offend me if they go to another smith for a second opinion.

    Often money is a big issue and the smith needs to explain that sometimes it is best to cut your losses and buy a new rifle or try to find a load that will work best in the rifle and just limit the distance you use it. rather than spend a lot of money and end up with very little more than you had.

    Quality smithing takes time and should be considered when planning a new build or simply repairing
    a used rifle. So I agree with Sidecarflip about planning well ahead of hunting season.

    A good project requires a good understanding of the work, cost, schedule and planning to be successful and fun. poor planning only leads to a poor outcome.

    To the poster- Try to work out your problems with the smith as best you can, if you can't, pull the plug and go somewhere else.

    My recommendations are more for the future projects you and others are planning and not for this one (The mistakes have already been made and all you can do at this point is make the best of it).

    I hope it all works out for you and does not leave you with bad feelings toward other gunsmiths
    that would have handled it better or at least told you the truth in the beginning so the choice would have been yours.

    Just some comments

    J E CUSTOM