ADMIN
Administrator
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2008
- Messages
- 1,224
This is a thread for discussion of the article, How To Dope The Wind Beyond Belief-DVD Review, By Ernie Bishop. Here you can ask questions or make comments about the article.
How To Dope The Wind Beyond Belief-DVD Review
- Thread starter ADMIN
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
paphil
Well-Known Member
OK , I'll admit that I am probably a little biased in my opinions about the vidio and I can see that some of the reviewers missed alot of information and would get a lot more info with a second or third viewing. I am sure I saw a chart in the vidio that told percentages for up or down angles and David Tubbs spends quite a bit of time on flag position verses wind speed . I have been shooting long range for only about four years, mostly groundhogs and I know that the information in the vidio has made me a much better shot. The one small piece of information presented by John Porter on the rise or drop caused by spin drift and wind is worth all the money paid for the vidio and some long time shooters won't even admit that it exists. You can't teach an old dog new tricks so all us young dogs will probably benefit the most from this vidio!
Ernie
SPONSOR
Paphil,
I am glad you enjoyed the DVD, I sure did.
I am glad you enjoyed the DVD, I sure did.
twotwentyswift
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2008
- Messages
- 27
Why did they name this DVD, how to dope the wind?
When I saw there was a 90 minute video on how to dope the wind I couldn't wait to get my hands on it. 30 minutes into the video and they still hadn't addressed the topic and I knew I'd been had. At the start of the video we heard all the experts tell us that doping the wind was important. I think most of us know that, or we wouldn't have laid out nearly $50 to get the video! This would be a good video for the new shooter as it explains the history of firearms from the 1300's , and topics like, what does velocity mean, what is MOA, what is ballistic coefficient etc. There's also quite a bit of discussion on the Trijicon optics and how the military ranges distances with them. Interesting but off topic. Yes they do eventually get around to talking about doping the wind, but it's too little too late, and it left me hungry for information. David Tubb and John Porter do make some good points and they marketed this video well using their names. You'll hear far more about Huskemaw scopes, and wind meters, and why you need to buy them then about doping the wind. In the end it was just like a Taco Bell Taco. Lots of filler without much meat!
When I saw there was a 90 minute video on how to dope the wind I couldn't wait to get my hands on it. 30 minutes into the video and they still hadn't addressed the topic and I knew I'd been had. At the start of the video we heard all the experts tell us that doping the wind was important. I think most of us know that, or we wouldn't have laid out nearly $50 to get the video! This would be a good video for the new shooter as it explains the history of firearms from the 1300's , and topics like, what does velocity mean, what is MOA, what is ballistic coefficient etc. There's also quite a bit of discussion on the Trijicon optics and how the military ranges distances with them. Interesting but off topic. Yes they do eventually get around to talking about doping the wind, but it's too little too late, and it left me hungry for information. David Tubb and John Porter do make some good points and they marketed this video well using their names. You'll hear far more about Huskemaw scopes, and wind meters, and why you need to buy them then about doping the wind. In the end it was just like a Taco Bell Taco. Lots of filler without much meat!
Yoshie
Member
I too was excited to get my hands on the 90 minute video on how to dope the wind! I watched it this morning and i do have to say; there is quite a bit of great information in the video. However, the amount of beginner information is quite abundant. Like they said though "we need to get everyone on the same page" its nice that i can be assured that i actually did know moa, velocity, and ballistic coefficient.
I have always been fascinated with long range hunting but have never been able to get my hands on capable equipment. I had always thought that there was a secret behind doping the wind. the fact is, and they say it in the video: being good at doping the wind equates to practice, practice, practice. Same as a golf swing, you must know the basics; you can practice till your blue in the face, but if you havnt had the correct form while you were practicing, it is all for not.
I have always been fascinated with long range hunting but have never been able to get my hands on capable equipment. I had always thought that there was a secret behind doping the wind. the fact is, and they say it in the video: being good at doping the wind equates to practice, practice, practice. Same as a golf swing, you must know the basics; you can practice till your blue in the face, but if you havnt had the correct form while you were practicing, it is all for not.
Visually great production; very professional.
Was astounded at the MIL explanation: They really don't get it. DON'T mix inches with MIL. Don't do calculations where you multiply with 2,54 "in your head". The example in the film should correctly be described 500:2 = 250.
Bullets climb/ drop in wind? (1 MOA per 3 MOA drift wasn't it?) Shouldn't this show on doppler radar and thus be described by the ballistical scientists?
Was astounded at the MIL explanation: They really don't get it. DON'T mix inches with MIL. Don't do calculations where you multiply with 2,54 "in your head". The example in the film should correctly be described 500:2 = 250.
Bullets climb/ drop in wind? (1 MOA per 3 MOA drift wasn't it?) Shouldn't this show on doppler radar and thus be described by the ballistical scientists?
CRaTxn
Well-Known Member
Some people are great athletes but poor play-by-play commentators. John Porter exemplifies those that can do both when he uses slow-mo and graphic animation to draw in the vertical component of spindrift while explaining his Alaska moose shot & again when he addresses mirage. David Tubbs is a very technical minded shooter who probably has beat more competitors with his thinking than his trigger finger...his explanations for instance on angle shooting where he breaks out the lateral distance component for drop correction but reminds us to use the full line of sight distance for crosswind component correction is genius and should be rewound and replayed to imbed it in our minds. Steve Goff's comments are concise and if you will review his dissertation on the 10 O'clock to 4 O'clock vertical component of RH twist spindrift in a crosswind you will get some gold. Frankly, Bobby Hart should do some preparation before he opens his mouth on this DVD, his remarks on BC,twist rate and wind did not showcase his talents. More over Mike Colpo may be a wonderful shooter and hopefully instructor but he also opened his mouth before he engaged his brain, telling me something is "very,very important" or"is what it is" is worthless verbiage . Lance Hopper has potential but needs to get over that on camera deer-in-the-headlights stare so you know when he is about to spit out a nugget of wisdom. That's pretty harsh commentary but after wasting the first third (approx 30 mins) of the DVD on equine excrement my patience was wearing thin. I had hungered for a DVD as I am a visual learner(hint there are also kinesthetic & auditory) and though there were great plays in this game the fumbles and penalties distracted more than a little. Not as good dollar for dollar overall as THE WIND BOOK cunningham&miller.
Last edited:
CRaTxn
Well-Known Member
Gold & Gooblydegook>>to wit Lance Hopper again starts telling us how to range by"how many inches tall a target is" then he and the graphics person proceed to explain and animate a HORIZONTAL 20 inch shoulder width example...how about some proof reading-technical editing; IF,IF there was a script, Lance flubbed it up enough to confuse people. He then goes into why the army uses a 10 inch standard head height because it is more consistent--@800-900yards they compute to the closest tenth of a mil??right. Then all the mils and inches mixed together he computes 2.5 MOA wind correction at 500 METERS and gets 12.5 inches...excuse me Sir but 500m is more like <550y and 2.5 MOA = 13.7 inches NOT 12.5inches(he obviously used meters not yards)...then he sums up by saying "you have to do a little bit of math to use it..." yeah, well I wouldn't want him doing the math to compute the close air support on my position. Once again John Porter comes along to simplify and illustrate what the sergeant was trying to say. David Tubbs shows the mechanical turbulence created by ground clutter and makes you think just how high the bullets arc (between 20-30 feet) takes it above the line of sight into the stronger laminar flow of wind as height increases...great! Back before laser range finders, I found I did better MOA ranging distance off an animal's standing height NOT their brisket thickness that all the outdoor writers parroted. The bigger numbers you are dividing with your reticle's MOA subtension the easier to measure and to "math"it.
yobuck
Well-Known Member
the cliche about old dogs and new tricks is probably true.
im 76 years old. ive been being told all my life there are smarter people with better ways.
certainly that is true in many situations. medical science is but one area where that is evident. computers are another area. we could go on and on about other things positivly affecting our lives.
many things however turn out to be more beneficial for the seller than the user.
some of the products were told are important/necessary to have for long range hunting/shooting fit that mold.
its not that they dont work, as much as they arent necessary.
long range 1000 yd benchrest target shooting has its roots in a place named bodines near williamsport pa.
many world records have been set there including the current 10 shot record.
some of the shooters there are among the best in the world.
if you visit there as a spectator as i have you will see wind flags.
i doubt you will see an individual using a wind meter/weather station.
many shooters will wait till the last seconds before firing their last sighter.
when the sighter target comes down and the record target goes up things happen very quickly.
you will see most shooters machine gun all 10 shots as fast as they can get them off.
that technique hasent changed in the 40 + years ive been visiting there.
if david tubbs were to shoot there he would undoubtedly do likewise.
fact is there are no experts when it comes to dealing with wind.
especially in a hunting situation where wide deep valleys could be encountered.
put a river or large stream in the equasion and it could compound the problems.
as for cosine or uphill/downhill, weve been dealing with that successfully for decades. it is a very important item but dosent require a costly peice of equiptment.
the keys to success in long range shooting/hunting is a good rifle, a good shooter, and a good spotter with very good tripod mounted glasses.
become proficient with your rifle and listening to your spotter.
practice getting from where it hit to where its supposed to hit with the next shot in the event of a miss.
its amazing to me how much emphasis is placed on gadgets, and how little on spotters.
all those lures in the tackle shop wont make you a better fisherman.
but that dosent stop guys like bill dance from trying to sell you some.
all the shooting gadgets were being exposed to wont make any difference either.
learn to shoot and you wont need them.
im 76 years old. ive been being told all my life there are smarter people with better ways.
certainly that is true in many situations. medical science is but one area where that is evident. computers are another area. we could go on and on about other things positivly affecting our lives.
many things however turn out to be more beneficial for the seller than the user.
some of the products were told are important/necessary to have for long range hunting/shooting fit that mold.
its not that they dont work, as much as they arent necessary.
long range 1000 yd benchrest target shooting has its roots in a place named bodines near williamsport pa.
many world records have been set there including the current 10 shot record.
some of the shooters there are among the best in the world.
if you visit there as a spectator as i have you will see wind flags.
i doubt you will see an individual using a wind meter/weather station.
many shooters will wait till the last seconds before firing their last sighter.
when the sighter target comes down and the record target goes up things happen very quickly.
you will see most shooters machine gun all 10 shots as fast as they can get them off.
that technique hasent changed in the 40 + years ive been visiting there.
if david tubbs were to shoot there he would undoubtedly do likewise.
fact is there are no experts when it comes to dealing with wind.
especially in a hunting situation where wide deep valleys could be encountered.
put a river or large stream in the equasion and it could compound the problems.
as for cosine or uphill/downhill, weve been dealing with that successfully for decades. it is a very important item but dosent require a costly peice of equiptment.
the keys to success in long range shooting/hunting is a good rifle, a good shooter, and a good spotter with very good tripod mounted glasses.
become proficient with your rifle and listening to your spotter.
practice getting from where it hit to where its supposed to hit with the next shot in the event of a miss.
its amazing to me how much emphasis is placed on gadgets, and how little on spotters.
all those lures in the tackle shop wont make you a better fisherman.
but that dosent stop guys like bill dance from trying to sell you some.
all the shooting gadgets were being exposed to wont make any difference either.
learn to shoot and you wont need them.
paphil
Well-Known Member
I think the vidio was made to help the average guy become a better shooter. There are probably a thousand shooters out there that already understood most of the information and sure hope they didn't think that there is some gadget that will make them a perfect shot. The vidio exposes the different conditions and problems encountered in long range hunting. You don't usually get a spotter shot in the real world of hunting and it would be unethical to use an animal as a target for a spotter shot ( oops, I hit him in the back leg, better give him a couple of clicks higher and a couple to the right). Any thing you can do to improve your ability is a positive thing and probably the best advice given on the entire vidio is when John Porter, upon being confronted with swirling winds, is asked what to do. His honest and valuable response is to move in to get a closer shot. The information presented can make any shooter better and I've yet to see anyone else doing as much to help the shooting community.
yobuck
Well-Known Member
obviously there are those hunters unfamiliar with what a spotter is.
it is another person who takes a position behind the shooter. with proper optics, the actual shot can be followed to the target. sight corrections are then relayed to the shooter for follow up shots.
misses or poor shots such as leg hits are unavoidable in the real world of long range hunting. especially where considerable distance and wind are involved. experienced honest hunters will acknowledge this. moving closer is always advisable if possible. thats not always possible and why a spotter is essential in successful long range hunting.
think about this, as recent as 20 years ago about nobody had heard the name nightforce.
i can tell you lots and lots of animals were being shot long range without nightforce.
now we have lots of guys thinking you cant be successful without one.
same is true with best of the west and the things they promote.
fact is lots of people have jumped on the long range bandwagon in recent years. buy this or buy that and you will be more successful.
i challenge you to ask bob hart whos name has been mentioned, what the hart philosiphy was 30 years ago.
those few who were touting big wildcat rifles for long range hunting back then were considered nitwits by hart rifles and by many others.
but now the long range bandwagon is rolling. the old nitwits are still nitwits, but new ways have been found way to spell expert.
paphil
Well-Known Member
You are right and you've been doing it long enough to know! Bob Hart is a personal friend and I'll see him next week at an advanced shooting school in Texas and I,ll ask him about 30 years ago. I think he's been shooting 1000 yards longer than that.
yobuck
Well-Known Member
that would be a good idea. just pose this simple question.
had you walked into their nescopek pa. shop say 30 years ago.
inquired about building a radical wildcat rifle, say a 7stw, or its twin a 7x300
weatherby, or better yet the worst of the worst the extremly dangerous 30x378.
what would the reaction have been?
sounds laughable dosent it.
i can tell you about my personal experience, but its best you get that from the new c. e. o.
my comments arent intended as an attack on anyone or any product.
their aimed more at newcomers who could become confused as to what they need to pursue this activity.
be aware some products arent necessary at all, and will do little to nothing to improve your ability.
there is no substitute for trigger time. put a scope you can dial on your 223 or whatever and go learn to hit rocks.
save the gadget/video money for more ammo.
anyboby remember those experts who were so willing to help us all become
filthy rich buying real estate?
no money needed, no experience needed. no work needed.
buy my book or buy my video and you too can become as rich as me.
think any succers fell for that?
had you walked into their nescopek pa. shop say 30 years ago.
inquired about building a radical wildcat rifle, say a 7stw, or its twin a 7x300
weatherby, or better yet the worst of the worst the extremly dangerous 30x378.
what would the reaction have been?
sounds laughable dosent it.
i can tell you about my personal experience, but its best you get that from the new c. e. o.
my comments arent intended as an attack on anyone or any product.
their aimed more at newcomers who could become confused as to what they need to pursue this activity.
be aware some products arent necessary at all, and will do little to nothing to improve your ability.
there is no substitute for trigger time. put a scope you can dial on your 223 or whatever and go learn to hit rocks.
save the gadget/video money for more ammo.
anyboby remember those experts who were so willing to help us all become
filthy rich buying real estate?
no money needed, no experience needed. no work needed.
buy my book or buy my video and you too can become as rich as me.
think any succers fell for that?
CRaTxn
Well-Known Member
Laser Rangefinders ARE the reason we aren't still trying to shoot point-blank-range with faster and flatter ACKLEY-Weatherby-Lazarroni barrel burners. VLD bullets from benchrest bullet makers are another factor but you take away the rangefinders (whether laser or optical)and none of this works. The proliferation of accuracy gunsmiths and computer aided lathes and indicators has brought unattainable accuracy to even factory rifles like some Savages etc. The comments on this and other blogs seems to indicate men now want a "carry rifle" good to kill elk, deer, bear etc. out towards 1,000 yards or more. Sure some guys drove around in their pickups with optical rangefinders the size of bazookas and did some heavy rifle long range benchrest hunting but technology DOES seem to have made the here-to-fore impossible > possible even probable. We gain much from our 1,000 yard benchrest experts but the weight of the rifles, elaborate rifle rests , wind flags, know distance, know range variables, the fact the target won't just walk off into the woods, HAVING A PERSONAL SPOTTER vs hunting solo make equating one with the other quite a stretch. I'm just waiting for the hand held doppler wind meter combination rangefinder. or maybe the optical mirage focal shift indicator will be miniaturized into our scopes next to our spirit level and compass coriolis computer !?! Think that sounds like BS...climb in one of our latest tanks...ah resistance to change
