How tight the rings?

Discussion in '7mm STW' started by Clovis Man, Jul 27, 2014.

  1. Clovis Man

    Clovis Man Well-Known Member

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    Shooting my Model 70 in 7mm STW, I've used a box of Nosler Custom Ammo that I got for a good price. I can't hit anything with it! At 100 yards, it's all over the paper, at 200 yards, it's OFF the paper!

    I had assumed the Nosler ammo was just too hot, as it's spec'd at 160 grain Partitions at 3075 FPS. In fact, I shot the last four rounds yesterday, polished the brass overnight, and this morning I'm planning to start reloading them and working up a load that goes where I aim it. I figure where it goes is more important than how fast it gets there.

    However, last night I looked the rifle over (really just admiring her, LOL) and I noticed a mark on the scope that looks to me as if the scope is moving in the front ring when a round is fired. Maybe you can see it around the bottom of the ring.

    Do y'all agree? Does this indicate the ring isn't tight enough?

    And -- just how tight do these rings need to be? Crank 'em down? Is there actually a torque value? How do I fix this?[​IMG]
     
  2. 7magcreedmoor

    7magcreedmoor Well-Known Member

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    First stop: the manufacturer's website for the torque specification. (If they don't offer the info, I'd use someone else's rings for sure. The good stuff will have torque specs.) Next stop: Torque wrench calibrated in inch-pounds if you don't already have one. There are plenty to choose from that won't break the bank.
    Next stop: bed the base(s). A small "X" cut into the top of the receiver and the underside of the base at the same location, and a small dab of bedding compound in between- bases will never shift on you, short of throwing the rifle down the mountainside...
    Next: lap the rings unless you switch to an insert style like Burris' Zee rings (I use them, they solve several potential problems at the same time.)
    Mount and level the scope in the usual fashion (I have a tool from EXD that works great), shoot and enjoy. If you have accuracy problems after all this, it won't be your mounting system.
     

  3. Clovis Man

    Clovis Man Well-Known Member

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    Does that mark make you suspicious as it does me?
     
  4. gamehawker

    gamehawker Well-Known Member

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    Here you go for all torque recommendations.

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f37/torque-recomendations-29756/

    I torque mine at 18 pounds with a Wheeler torque screwdriver and had no problems with 100s of rounds and they are pretty hot loads.

    My 3 shot groupings average between 1/4" to 1/3" at 100 yards to 300 yards with 140gr Nosler ABs and 168gr Matrix VLDs.
     
  5. 7magcreedmoor

    7magcreedmoor Well-Known Member

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    It does make me suspect that your rifle has in fact leaped back under your scope. If you follow my previous post, it'll never happen again.
     
  6. Clovis Man

    Clovis Man Well-Known Member

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    Thanks!
     
  7. Engineering101

    Engineering101 Well-Known Member

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    Clovis Man

    If you want to fix the problem easy and cheap just put a piece of double stick golf grip tape under the upper ring half. Then you don't have to have much torque on the screws and it will still never slide in the rings. (Use the kind of grip tape that is paint thinner activated - but don't activate it. Don't use water activated grip tape.)

    When taking the rings off the scope you will find slow steady pressure (not a lot) will pop them loose from the grip tape.
     
  8. Clovis Man

    Clovis Man Well-Known Member

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    Just got back from the range. Borrowed a Torx driver there, and found the screws in the front ring were REALLY loose. Not having a torque wrench, I gently snugged them down and tried the loads I had with me.

    The rifle is shooting a LOT better, although still not where I would like. At least it is now at the point where I can start working on accuracy. Whereas before, shots were all over the paper at 100 yards, and off the paper at 200 yards, the groups now are actually visible as groups.

    Firing today at 100 yards range, the first three shots were with the 160-grain Sierra Game King SPBT and 72.2 grains of Retumbo (lightest load shown in the Sierra manual). All three shots could fit in a circle of about four inches diameter.

    The second group had the same bullets, but with 75.2 grains of Retumbo. These three shots could fit in a circle about three inches in diameter.

    As I said -- it isn't where I'm hoping to get, but I am tickled pink at the improvement! I had started to think the barrel might be shot out, and I was convinced the Nosler ammo I was shooting was simply too hot for the rifle. Wish I had a few more rounds of it to see if it actually shoots well in my rifle.

    The screws in the front ring were loose. Oh my.
     
  9. woodnut

    woodnut Well-Known Member

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    Can't help but say I have a 7 STW and heard of many and all will shoot a lot better than that! Not saying anything about your abilities, just that something is fishy when a 7 STW won't shoot. My next place to look would be the bases. Those do need to be dry and dang tight! Blue Locktite is good for those screws. Not on the rings. If you are then sure all the mounts, scope rings are secured well, then it's into the barrel for anything not right, like copper fouling, rust, worn throat or rifling. If you don't see anything, then lets clean it. People have a tendency to clean badly. You need a bore guide for sure. Then either Tipton or Dewey rods. If it ain't clogged up with copper, really, just a tight patch with a good solvent like Ballistol, shooters Choice, etc. is all you need. Just let it soak, patch it out til it's good. May need several wet patches. Brushes in my opinion aren't all that necessary all the time. If that ain't it, check the bedding, especially the barrel channel. The front guard screw should be tight, but not overly tight. The rear screw should be just snug. When you tighten them, nothing should be moving. Last place is the scope itself. If it isn't a high quality scope, it could be the cause of wild/wide shots. Good luck and I bet you find what is causing the problem.
     
  10. Clovis Man

    Clovis Man Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the thoughts, Woodnut. The bases are Leupold, and I think I'm going to replace them with an RVF set this weekend, as I'd like the scope to sit a bit farther back than I can do with the standard set.

    Scope is a Weaver Grand Slam and is new this year.

    As for my abilities -- well, I can tell you that I pulled certain shots here and there, so part of the problem is me. It's really strange that I can't seem to hold the rifle still any more, but I'd guess that a 2-inch group at 100 yards is at least useable for a little way. More practice, I guess.
     
  11. FearNoWind

    FearNoWind Well-Known Member

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  12. woodnut

    woodnut Well-Known Member

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    Odd, but I was reading an old issue ( Sept. 2000) of Rifle magazine where Ross Seyfried answered a question just like yours! He opined that your type" rings have one basic weakness. That is, the front ring is the only one with any real solid connection to the rifle. The opposing screws in the rear base more or less only control windage and lack any real power to hold the scope against its violent forward urges." I fully agree with Mr. Seyfried. I also wrote an article for this web site in Jan. '12 about ARs. In it I spoke of mounting scopes. You may want to review it and about mid way is the part about scopes.
    While I haven't heard of the brand you said you wanted to get, Doesn't mean they aren't good. But, my preference now is for a Weaver style mounting system. The brand I have grown to admire is TPS. I use them on all my ARs. I use the aluminum ones, too. Reasons I love them is that they lock everything up tight and NEVER move, and I have NEVER had to lap a set . Come with instructions that make you say, duh, of course that's the way to mount them ! Hope this helps some.
     
  13. highridge1

    highridge1 Well-Known Member

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    Yeh use something like TPS or warne etc. get rid of them rear windage adjustable style leupolds they are trouble....
     
  14. Clovis Man

    Clovis Man Well-Known Member

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    The RVF? That's just a Leupold mount that the front base can be turned around to adjust how far forward or rearward the scope is mounted. Here.

    I'll go look at Weaver mounts.

    Hey, somewhere I heard of someone using THREE rings, but I don't see how that could be, unless with a picatinny rail or something. Right???