How many are interested in their CBS???

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by ss7mm, Sep 27, 2007.

  1. ss7mm

    ss7mm Writers Guild

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    Since this is a hunting forum and hunting season is here for pretty much all of us , I was just thinking......and that can be bad.:rolleyes:

    How many of you know what a CBS (cold bore shot) is (don't take this personal) and know where it goes for each rifle/handgun you hunt with? Same goes for a CCBS (clean cold bore shot) although anything I personally hunt with is going to be fouled properly before I go out.

    I know everybody "sights their gun in" and zeros it at a certain range, but what happens with it when you take it stone cold out of the case, go hunting and have to make that first, important shot?

    How many of you think it important to know where the CBS goes?

    How many of you know where the next 2 shots will go immediately after your initial CBS? Since this is a hunting forum I am using a 3 shot group format.

    How many of you actually document the CBS and the following shots that might occur under hunting conditions? Hopefully only the first shot will be all that is ever needed.:)

    I've been tracking this on my 7mm AM and this is a CBS with 2 additional shots done a few days ago in the wind.
    [​IMG]

    I don't always shoot the other 2 shots. This is one I just did yesterday to check the CBS and then went to busting rocks at about 1400 yards.
    [​IMG]

    My personal view is that if I don't know where the CBS is going to go then how can I go hunting game animals. I almost always check my CBS at the range I zero at, which is 300 although I will also, when out playing, try it at any range I can see a rock that looks like it's going to attack. ;)

    Admittedly this gun makes life a little easier as I have a couple of guns that aren't nearly this user friendly.
     
  2. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    The CBS as you call it is the only shot that counts, in my opinion.

    My 270 AM does about what your 7 does w/169 RBBTs though.

    The way I do thing's the CBS is going to be the only shot you get. If a second shot it needed it will be most probably a CBS also and a long time from when the first CBS was shot.;)
     

  3. stxhunter

    stxhunter Well-Known Member

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    with my 700p 300 rum a ccbs is dead on and a cbs is dead on theres no shift in point of impact as i shoot it. with my 300wm ccbs 2 inchs high cbs 1 1/2 inch high
     
  4. TMR

    TMR Well-Known Member

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    Dick,

    My 7AM does about the same as yours does..what a coincidence:D..the first CCBS is usually a little off, but I also have been shooting a few rounds to foul the barrel before I get serious.
     
  5. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    This is a good topic, one that is actually critical in the field. I have tested this as well and will say in factory rifles, this can be critical at extended ranges as the first shot can vary quite a bit from the following shots.

    THe reason, well, obviously machining quality, barrel quality, bedding, all that comes into play.

    I have also noticed that in a properly built rifle, one that has a square receiver, a barrel that is threaded on axis to the receiver axis, a chamber that is perfectly on axis with the bore and receiver and in a rifle that is bedded properly in a solid non stressed method into a solid rigid stock, the first shot will generally fall into the moa ability of the rifle.

    What the hell does that mean????? Well, if a rifle will shoot 1/2 moa on average, that first shot will land with in the group of this size. Looking at the group from your rifle, it is a perfect triangle which tells us that things are square and bedding is good and your ammo is straight and consistant. YOu must be a hell of a handloader and your gunsmith must be world class!!!:D, well we know the first one is true......

    How do I prepare for the big game season. Well, like you I do load development long before the season begins. Then once that is done, the vast majority of my shooting is done for the year. From that point on, I work on my drop chart, tweaking here and there to match it up as perfectly with actual bullet flight as possible.

    Then about this time of year, when the temps start to get down into hunting type temps, I will take my hunting rifles out with customers rifles when I test them before shipping. After shooting the customers rifles(work first!!!) I will pull out my personal rifle with only two shots. Find a target of opportunity. What I look for is a well defined rock, roughly 4 to 8" in diameter for a target.

    I range it, check the wind and conditions if ranges are past 500 yards, run the numbers and get the hold. I will then settle in with a fouled cold bore and take the first shot and follow it up with the second as quickly as I can get it in the air similiar to what you would see if hunting big game and a second shot was needed.

    I then record the impact points and will compare that to my drop chart predictions. By this time of year, things are generally THERE. By that I mean impacting less then 1/2 moa from point of aim. If I can do this from field shooting positions I am happy. I will test out to ranges far past where I will shoot at big game. For example, I have been testing my 338 AM out to nearly 2000 yards this fall but have no intent to push things this far with the rifle, even though in the right conditions it makes this range seem pretty easy.

    Last trip out, I broke the right and left edge off an 8" rock at 1980 yards with the first two shots, from a cold barrel. Petted her warmly, call her some very nice things and put her back in her warm case!!!!:D

    I never shoot from a clean cold bore. In fact every time I clean a rifle, when she is done, I oil the bore lightly, take a fouling round and go out behind the shop and sink a round into the old cotton wood stump so that I never have to worry about a fouling shot in the field. Would it make any difference, I am sure it would because every shot I fire from a freshly cleaned bore is through an oiled bore, ALWAYS, never a dry bore so one can only expect if nothing else velocity will be effected because of the oil in the bore.

    Anyway, good topic, I believe in factory rifles, this is far more critical then in a properly built custom rifle but its always something that you need to know about your rifle, just goes back to being intimately familiar with your gear before heading to the field.

    Looks like big grey will be eating well this fall for you!!! Remember to send the pics!!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  6. Surveyor

    Surveyor Well-Known Member

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    WHEW! glad I'm not the only one who strokes and talks to his rifles.

    Before the corn got too tall, I would take my fouled rifle (Savage 300 WM) from the case, walk to the edge of the farm and back to the house (about 1ΒΌ mile through the hilly parts) set up and take a shot at my 300 yard target. Note the impact and conditions, and put the gun away. Two or three times a week. I only have limited areas to practice at ranges beyond that, but when had the chance, I've still been consistent out to about 600 which is my limit until I can practice out further.

    Aside from when I first got it, I don't know if it ever had three shots rapidly fired through it.
     
  7. ss7mm

    ss7mm Writers Guild

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    What it means is.........you send your bag of parts and pieces off to Montana, then you pace the floor waiting and writing redundant e-mails off to APS wasting Kirby's time, then you wait some more and finally the little brown truck brings you a package and all is well with the world once more.;) You go to the range and the wait was worth it.

    Hell of a handloader........don't think so. World class gunsmith.......that's my opinion, and a whole lot of others as well. Since I first posted about the care package from Fort Shaw when I first got the gun, I've responded to dozens of e-mail inquiries about the smith and gun from all continents except Asia and Africa. You'd be surprised what some people want a gun like that for.;)

    'Ol grey will feed well this fall if I can find a furry critter and get him to co-operate with me.:)

    At least I confident as to where the first shot is going to go, at any range.;)
     
  8. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    In fact every time I clean a rifle, when she is done, I oil the bore lightly, take a fouling round and go out behind the shop and sink a round into the old cotton wood stump so that I never have to worry about a fouling shot in the field.

    Kirby, i'm a little uncomfortable with letting burnt powder set in the bore. we have to get the copper and powder out, but aren't you just putting a bunch of powder back in there? i shoot mine the evening before or when i leave in the morning but don't like letting the gun sit for extended periods with a fouled bore. you obviously feel this is not a problem. i guess i'm asking if this is OK to do.
     
  9. NYLES

    NYLES Well-Known Member

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    I experimented with the 300 last year, while working loads the first one down a oily barrel we just put a X on em and go from there.....seems most of the time its high and right.

    However in the muzzle loader department....its allways CCBS and will be the only one for the day....Ill shoot this gun 1 time at 100 yrds useually the lil circle on a milk jug....if its there I clean and reload it..DONE!

    SS7MM that brown truck day is near! almost as bad as the first month on the wait.....I almost got braggin rights on a world class gun!

    Kirby dont be sleepin with my girl but do keep her warm, Southern girls is sensitive to the cold!
     
  10. ss7mm

    ss7mm Writers Guild

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    Ya know, you've said to do that before so I tried it. Cleaned my gun, went out in the back yard behind my shop and put a round into the ol tree stump........then it got a little hectic.

    The cops came....the sheriff came...the neighborhood dogs went crazy, my dog peed all over my foot and ran and hid, 6 car alarms went off and the swat team was on two of the neighbors roofs in nothing flat. I had little laser dots wiggling around all over my chest.;) You'd be surprised how fast you can get down and spread them when 17 guys dressed all in black and wearing body armor are yelling at you with bullhorns.:)

    Not all of your ideas are great ones. Think I'll skip the back yard thing.:);):) Maybe it makes a difference if you live in town or out in the middle of nowhere.:confused:
     
  11. NYLES

    NYLES Well-Known Member

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    The cops came....the sheriff came...the neighborhood dogs went crazy, my dog peed all over my foot and ran and hid, 6 car alarms went off and the swat team was on two of the neighbors roofs in nothing flat. I had little laser dots wiggling around all over my chest. You'd be surprised how fast you can get down and spread them when 17 guys dressed all in black and wearing body armor are yelling at you with bullhorns.





    Thats funny but I can relate! My dad lives in the county(legal to shoot) on the city limit(not legal to shoot) line....Now imagine what its feels like when the wrong cops show up! And dont realize where they are cuz the call came from inside the city limits...and it gets even better when its the 1/2 the SWAT team from another county in his backyard playing will full auto SMG's!

    THAT IS A TRUE STORY!
     
  12. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Cold bore shots

    Good suggestions all !

    What works for you, is best for you .

    With chrome molly barrels I shoot the cold bore shot with oil
    in the bore after cleaning.

    With stainless barrels after cleaning,I fire one round and dry patch
    to remove powder fowling and dont worry about the copper from
    one round.

    But I always note where the CBS is in the event that I don't have a
    chance to fire a fowling shot.

    The Bore Snake is a great tool for sweeping the powder fowling out
    after one shot. and after a shot is made on game I run the snake
    through the bore so it is ready for the next hunt.

    With good weather I may not solvent clean for 2 or 3 weeks. But after
    cleaning I repeat the process.

    This method works for me and the second and third shots remain the same
    ( Heaven forbid I need them to anchor the game )

    Like most on this web site I believe the first shot is the only shot, and
    if I miss It was his lucky day and not mine, so he walks .

    J E CUSTOM
     
  13. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    That's my game as well.
    I'm a walking varmint hunter and shoot off harris bipods.

    My rules as follows:
    #1 I load a round only when I'm fully prepared to kill something with a responsible shot
    #2 I hunt for one game at a time, I will not affect others
    #3 If within 400yds, it's a headshot only
    #4 If I miss, that animal lives another day
    #5 Unless I pick up the carcass, it doesn't count as a kill
    #6 Rule #2 is dropped if I run across some jackass in the field shooting at game from a benchrest, under an umbrella, and sipping a martini(shaken -not stirred)
     
  14. buffalorancher

    buffalorancher Writers Guild

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    This is an interesting topic because in all reality it makes very little difference in my rifles and I would assume most of yours. Nyles brought up the muzzleloader and that is the rifle we have the most trouble with. We haven't had a blackpowder deer hunter for a couple years but probably at least 1/3 of the buffalo hunter use one. None of them spend any time on load developement and it's very easy to have one of these that shoots really sh**ty. I will have the client shoot one round to make sure it's sighted properly then I always make them clean and shoot again. It never fails that I get asked why we do this because they won't have a chance to clean between shots when hunting. Well, too many times if the first shot is close the second shot is way off. You just hope it's minute of buffalo and explain that 250 yard TV shots take practice not 3 pellets instead of 2. Sorry, this isn't long range stuff but it is a big problem for us and where the CBS is really a big deal.