How is this for a vertical string

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Machinist, May 17, 2013.

  1. Machinist

    Machinist Member

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    The rifle is a Savage lrh 300 win mag. Overall I really like the rifle my average groups are .8 moa. It only shoots well with the muzzle break on by the way. I bought a bunch of new brass and decided to see if i could find an accurate load for fire forming it. That way I was still practicing instead of just slinging lead down range. This was not the best group today but I must say it's the most interesting. Should play with this load or bit or scrap it. I was going to write 2.2 inches and 1.1 moa underneath but somehow I messed that up and wrote 2.2 moa sorry for the typo.
     

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  2. Machinist

    Machinist Member

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    Oh I almost forgot each powder charge is trickled and weighed twice ( imr 4831). The bullets are sorted to 1 grain (190 smk). I normally like to keep the jump to .01 but since it's new brass and head spaced to the belt I gave it .03 to be safe. I did not sort the brass at all the case length was already short and varied a lot. The shot in the 7 ring was the cold bore shot if that means anything to anyone.
     

  3. barnesuser28

    barnesuser28 Well-Known Member

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    Ive seen bad vertical like this from loose action screws, you might want to check that out.
     
  4. Machinist

    Machinist Member

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    They are tight I just checked them. Normally I would say it was me but with a .15 moa of horizontal variation I think my shooting is not the culprit. I tried some 208 amax loads after that group and they printed a .8 moa with the bullets in a circular arrangement.
     
  5. JackinSD

    JackinSD Well-Known Member

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  6. X-man

    X-man Well-Known Member

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    What is your load?
     
  7. Machinist

    Machinist Member

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    70 grains imr4831 3.400 (.03) Fed 215 primers Non fire formed Rem brass. I did weight sort the brass and bullets this time; I found 1 bullet that was 3 grains heavier. I loaded some up this morning stepping from 69 - 71.5 in .5 grain increments.

    I was reading that excessive vertical stringing can be caused by very light loads and I am on the light side, according to the sierra manual with 72 or 72.5 max. I have not gotten any stringing with any other loads before. None of my loads have had as little horizontal as that target had, so I think I am close to finding a really good combination.

    I am very good about not jerking the trigger and doing the same thing over but friday, when I try my next load I will pay very close attention to the stock position on my shoulder. I have a normal pocket that the rifle just wants to fall into but I might be varying how high and low I am putting it. I will post the targets when I get done.
     
  8. Bullet bumper

    Bullet bumper Well-Known Member

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    If fitting the muzzle brake reduces the verticle then the problem could be you are not controlling recoil well enough. Firm up your hold on the pistol grip and get it in firm into the shoulder . Lack of or improper use of a rear rest could be making it worse. If using a bi-pod failing to load the bi-pod and allowing too much rearward movement . If using a front rest a loose hold will cause the forend to jump up off the rest .
     
  9. Machinist

    Machinist Member

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    Well here are the targets from today. The picture needs to be rotated but oh well. I pulled the the rifle a little harder into my shoulder. The best group there is .7 moa. They are all shot at 200 yards. The wind was a little ridiculous today steady at 10 and gusting to 20. Those were three different powder charges. So the conclusion is me I am fairly certain.
    The one thing I can think of is I am shooting off of a very smooth concrete bench and I don't think it is recoiling consistently. I am going to go out and shoot prone on the ground see if that helps. They won't let me shot prone on the local range. So I have to drive a ways so I don't think I will get to it this week. I will post some more targets when I do. Thank you for all your help.
     

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  10. Bullet bumper

    Bullet bumper Well-Known Member

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    The results would have been even better without that annoying wind so the basic result is good . Starting to form a more rounded group and seeing three coming together . That's very encouraging .
    When you hold the stock to your shoulder is there anything under the stock supporting it , sand bag ? mono pod ? rear rest ?
    Some photos of you shooting might help . A movie of you shooting would be invaluable to see more detail .
    Also you may be shooting to quickly and heating the barrel .
     
  11. Machinist

    Machinist Member

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    I use a sand bag. I never let the barrel get to hot to hold on to. I am happy with the results. The way I was taught to shoot was not wrapping my thumb around the stock. Would that cause any negative effect on my groups?
     
  12. Bullet bumper

    Bullet bumper Well-Known Member

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    You were taught wrong for a weapon with recoil . Anything using 71.5 grains of powder has some recoil and you can't shoot it like a BR gun with lighter recoil and expect to control anything . Watch film footage of Military snipers shooting long range stuff and no one I have ever seen does that and I was not taught to do that in the Military with only the 308W to contend with.
    Stop listening to BR competition shooters who never fire anything bigger than a 6mm PPC or similar .

    A rear sand bag , as in a cloth bag filled with sand is a poor rear rest and will only support the heel of the stock and butt plate / pad most of the time and it will just dig it's way down into the bag with recoil . Make sure you remove any sling studs from the rear and from the forend if not using a bi-pod . See how much guessing I have to do when I can't actually see what you are using .
    If using a leather or cordura rear bunny or rabbit ear rear bag and calling it a sand bag then that is much better .
    I think in part the gun is controlling you not you controlling it .
    No single style suits all gun , cartridge , stock combinations and I have two guns in the same cartridge firing the identical load and they like slightly different handling techniques , probably due to different stocks , triggers and barrel weights . However with any gun with recoil you have to start by controlling it and go from there.
    If you are waiting for the barrel to get to hot to hold onto then at that point it would be way to hot during the shooting session.
    At this point you should stick to three shot groups , shoot slowly and watch the wind and don't let the barrel heat much at all. Firing five shot groups is a waste of ammo until you work out the bugs . When you can put three in a tight group consistantly then shoot bigger groups if you want . For a hunting rifle the most important shot is the first one from a cold barrel not the 5th or 10th shot in 99% of cases.
    So work out a load that gets the first cold barrel shot in the same place each time , zero the scope and then practice with that load to get the next two shots close by . If you can do that consistanly that is all you need for hunting.
    However you also have to be aware that the POI zero at the range off a bench may be different to how the gun shoots in the field on the dirt in a prone position . So once you feel you have it sorted out test the gun in the same position and way that you will shoot at game to the best you can that is , as you can't cover every possible situation .
    You may find you get better results laying behind the gun rather than sitting at a bench .
     
  13. Machinist

    Machinist Member

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    It is a leather bag with rabbit ears. I do not feel the rifle is controlling me just stating that there is some bi pod hop I would like to get rid of. I don't think the bi pod hop will go away untill I get off of the bench and into prone onto dirt. I should of clarified I don't let the barrel get more than warm. After each shot I grab the barrel to make sure its not hot I would like to keep the barrel in as good shape. On each of those targets is a clean cold bore shot. While I am satisfied with my groups for hunting I would like to compete long range with this rifle. While I probably won't win or even place in any competition with a stock savage, I like the idea of competing. Being a college student and a new baby I can't afford to modify it at all or even replace the barrel at the moment. I just want to perfect my technique. So if I do wrap my thumb around the stock how much should I squeeze the stock if at all?
     
  14. Machinist

    Machinist Member

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    I probably should only shoot three shot groups. I suppose I just want that extra reassurance of consistency.